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	<title>Plato</title>
	<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/</link>
	<description>Journal of the International Plato Society</description>
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		<title>1. Compte rendu de F. Pelosi, Plato: on Music, Soul and Body, Cambridge, Cambridge University Press, 2010, 228 p.</title>
		<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article110</link>
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		<dc:date>2013-03-24T11:06:30Z</dc:date>
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		<dc:language>en</dc:language>
		<dc:creator>COLLOBERT, Catherine</dc:creator>



		<description>Cet ouvrage constitue la version r&#233;vis&#233;e d'une th&#232;se de doctorat soutenue &#224; la Scuola Normale Superiore de Pise, et traduite en anglais. Compos&#233; de quatre chapitres, l'ouvrage se propose d'abord d'examiner le r&#244;le que Platon attribue &#224; la musique dans l'&#233;ducation, pour ensuite analyser la relation que la musique entretient avec l'&#226;me et le corps. F. Pelosi &#233;tudie la conception platonicienne de la musique et envisage son importance pour comprendre non seulement la relation corps-esprit chez Platon, mais (&amp;hellip;)

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&lt;a href="http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?rubrique13" rel="directory"&gt;12. Plato 12 (2012)&lt;/a&gt;


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 <content:encoded>&lt;div class='rss_texte'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cet ouvrage constitue la version r&#233;vis&#233;e d'une th&#232;se de doctorat soutenue &#224; la Scuola Normale Superiore de Pise, et traduite en anglais. Compos&#233; de quatre chapitres, l'ouvrage se propose d'abord d'examiner le r&#244;le que Platon attribue &#224; la musique dans l'&#233;ducation, pour ensuite analyser la relation que la musique entretient avec l'&#226;me et le corps. F. Pelosi &#233;tudie la conception platonicienne de la musique et envisage son importance pour comprendre non seulement la relation corps-esprit chez Platon, mais &#233;galement certains th&#232;mes principaux de la philosophie platonicienne (p. 2). L'auteur se concentrera n&#233;anmoins essentiellement, comme nous le verrons, sur la philosophie de l'esprit de Platon et ses implications dans sa conception de l'&#233;ducation. Il entend remettre en question le dualisme commun&#233;ment admis en montrant l'importance cognitive des sens dans la philosophie platonicienne de la musique. Selon Pelosi, celle-ci repose sur l'id&#233;e que l'&#226;me est d&#233;pendante du corps dans sa r&#233;ception de la musique.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le premier chapitre s'appuie, sans surprise, sur les &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lois&lt;/i&gt; et la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt; pour examiner l'&#233;ducation musicale de la sensibilit&#233;. Commen&#231;ant par la r&#233;ception de la musique chez l'enfant o&#249; la r&#233;ception de la musique est passive, l'A. s'interroge sur les difficult&#233;s que pose la notion de mouvement dans l'interaction entre l'&#226;me et la musique telle qu'elle appara&#238;t dans les &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lois&lt;/i&gt; (790c-d). Le mouvement que produit la musique est tant&#244;t positif lorsqu'il est facteur de r&#233;gulation tant&#244;t n&#233;gatif lorsqu'il est facteur de d&#233;s&#233;quilibre. La sensation est ici ce &#224; travers quoi l'&#226;me se trouve ordonn&#233;e ou d&#233;sordonn&#233;e du fait de la passivit&#233; essentielle de l'enfant dont l'&#226;me est totalement mall&#233;able. C'est cette mall&#233;abilit&#233; sur laquelle insiste Socrate dans la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt; (377a).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cependant, la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mousik&#234;&lt;/i&gt; dont il est ici question n'est pas la musique pure, mais les histoires racont&#233;es aux enfants, qui agissent &#224; l'instar de la musique pure sur les &#233;l&#233;ments non rationnels de l'&#226;me pour former cette derni&#232;re. L'A. s'attarde ici sur le vocabulaire physique employ&#233; par Platon (p. 20) et notamment celui du contact (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep&lt;/i&gt;., 401d) par o&#249; l'on comprend que la musique participe dans un premier temps non de l'acquisition d'une capacit&#233; rationnelle, mais d'une habitude, comme le souligne l'A. Bien que non mobilis&#233;e &#224; ce stade, la raison n'en est pas moins &#171; pr&#233;par&#233;e &#187; en quelque sorte pour accomplir le temps venu sa fonction de mani&#232;re appropri&#233;e, c'est-&#224;-dire sa fonction morale. Pelosi tente ici de comprendre pourquoi le processus &#233;ducatif est pr&#233;sent&#233; sur la forme d'une modification mat&#233;rielle et non d'un m&#233;canisme intellectuel (p. 22). On ne voit pourtant pas pourquoi cette pr&#233;sentation (401d-402a) confirme l'absence de conscience de la part de l'enfant des effets n&#233;gatifs que peuvent avoir les histoires qui lui sont racont&#233;es. M&#234;me dans l'hypoth&#232;se d'un m&#233;canisme intellectuel, l'enfant n'est pas n&#233;cessairement conscient des dommages cr&#233;&#233;s sur son &#226;me par des sc&#232;nes de violence, par exemple. Il peut ne pas comprendre que ces sc&#232;nes ne l'inciteront pas &#224; rejeter la violence le moment venu. En outre, comme le remarque Pelosi lui-m&#234;me, il s'agit d'une image, en l'occurrence d'une analogie qu'il n'interroge pourtant pas en tant que telle, mais qu'il consid&#232;re litt&#233;ralement. Il est toutefois pertinent de parler de l'&#233;ducation de l'enfant en termes de conditionnement de la sensibilit&#233; (p. 22), comme il fait en proc&#233;dant &#224; une courte intrusion dans la conception tripartite de l'&#226;me. L'A. ne l&#232;ve pas vraiment la perplexit&#233; que soul&#232;ve chez lui le passage 441e-442a o&#249; les discours sont dits nourrir la partie rationnelle (442a1) ; ce qui est quelque peu regrettable puisque l'affirmation va &#224; l'encontre de l'analyse propos&#233;e pr&#233;c&#233;demment. La musique ici n'&#233;duque pas seulement la sensibilit&#233;, mais &#233;galement la raison. Il aurait sans doute fallu s'interroger ici sur l'expression m&#234;me &#7952;&#960;&#953;&#964;&#949;&#943;&#957;&#959;&#965;&#963;&#945; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#964;&#961;&#941;&#966;&#959;&#965;&#963;&#945; et examiner s'il est possible de &#171; tendre &#187; et de nourrir la raison en s'adressant &#224; la sensibilit&#233;, autrement dit, de mani&#232;re indirecte et comme par &#171; ricochet &#187;. Un conditionnement de la sensibilit&#233; n'est pas incompatible avec le fait que les &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt; s'impriment dans la partie rationnelle sans &#234;tre analys&#233;s ou compris. Les &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lois&lt;/i&gt; sont &#224; cet &#233;gard plus explicites puisqu'il n'y est question que de sensibilit&#233;, et sont donc plus pertinentes pour d&#233;fendre l'affirmation de l'A, comme il le souligne lui-m&#234;me (p. 26).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;C'est avec la question de l'enchantement que d&#233;bute l'analyse qui fait de la musique &#171; une forme de psychoth&#233;rapie et de psychagogie &#187; (p. 27). Il me semble cependant maladroit ici de comprendre l'enchantement de la musique en le comparant &#224; l'enchantement que produit Socrate par ses discours, puisque c'est la raison qui est enchant&#233;e plus que la sensibilit&#233;, m&#234;me si les deux sont sans doute touch&#233;es. La premi&#232;re partie de ce chapitre se termine rapidement sur un examen de la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;choreia&lt;/i&gt; qui a pour but d'instiller la vertu dans l'&#226;me (p. 28). La seconde partie traite de la th&#233;orie de l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#234;thos&lt;/i&gt; et de la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mim&#234;sis&lt;/i&gt; musicale. Il est reconnu, comme le remarque l'A., que Platon se situe dans la lign&#233;e de la doctrine de Damon fond&#233;e sur le concept d'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#234;thos&lt;/i&gt; musical. Cette doctrine repose sur l'id&#233;e g&#233;n&#233;rale que la musique, &#224; travers l'harmonie et le rythme, reproduit des qualit&#233;s morales. Cette th&#233;orie sera mise &#224; mal par les formalistes et son principal repr&#233;sentant E. Hanslick, mais plus pr&#232;s de Platon, par l'&#233;picurien Philod&#232;me de Gadara. Il est cependant dommage que Pelosi ne confronte pas v&#233;ritablement ici la doctrine formaliste &#224; celle de l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#234;thos&lt;/i&gt; d'autant qu'&#224; la fin de ce chapitre (p. 59), il y est question de la musique absolue telle qu'elle est envisag&#233;e dans les&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; Lois&lt;/i&gt;, et qui joue un r&#244;le essentiel dans la th&#233;orie formaliste et sa d&#233;fense par Hanslick.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Avant d'examiner les &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lois&lt;/i&gt;, l'A. se concentre sur le livre III de la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt; o&#249; Glaucon, en tant que &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mousikos&lt;/i&gt;, pr&#233;sentent les diff&#233;rentes harmonies et leurs contenus &#233;thiques respectifs pour n'en retenir que deux : dorienne et phrygienne parce qu'elles expriment la premi&#232;re le courage et la seconde la temp&#233;rance (p. 35). On pourrait regretter que l'A. ne distingue pas clairement les concepts d'expression et de repr&#233;sentation dans le contexte de la th&#233;orie musicale platonicienne (la distinction est mentionn&#233;e, mais rapidement (p. 31) pour ne plus &#234;tre consid&#233;r&#233;e par la suite). Les deux termes semblent &#234;tre utilis&#233;s de fa&#231;on synonyme. Ainsi il est affirm&#233; que la musique repr&#233;sente des &#233;tats psychiques. Il est certes possible que pour Platon la musique ait une fonction &#224; la fois expressive et repr&#233;sentative, mais cela aura m&#233;rit&#233; dans le contexte de cette partie consacr&#233;e &#224; la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mim&#234;sis&lt;/i&gt; musicale une investigation plus approfondie. Il s'agit n&#233;anmoins d'une pr&#233;sentation d'ensemble de la th&#233;orie musicale platonicienne int&#233;ressante quant au r&#244;le des harmonies et &#224; l'interaction musique-&#226;me.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le chapitre 2 intitul&#233; &#171; Moving to music: a therapy for the rational soul &#187; consid&#232;re l'impact de la musique sur l'&#226;me rationnelle en analysant diff&#233;rents processus par lesquels la musique intervient sur l'&#226;me. L'A. s'appuie sur le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; et en particulier le passage 47c-e auquel est consacr&#233; un examen serr&#233; pour comprendre le r&#244;le th&#233;rapeutique de la musique sur l'&#226;me. En explicitant les concepts d'affinit&#233; et de contact, par l'origine musicale de l'&#226;me rationnelle, l'A. d&#233;montre la possibilit&#233; d'un tel r&#244;le. C'est en ce sens qu'il faut comprendre que la musique permet &#224; l'&#226;me de restaurer le d&#233;sordre inh&#233;rent &#224; sa condition d'&#226;me incarn&#233;e. Une comparaison entre &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; 47a-e et &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;p&lt;/i&gt;. 527d-531c permet &#224; l'A. de montrer rapidement la fonction essentielle de la sensibilit&#233; dans le d&#233;veloppement de la rationalit&#233;. Un autre rapprochement est &#233;tabli bri&#232;vement avec le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#233;don&lt;/i&gt;, qui pr&#233;sente des affirmations similaires &#224; celles du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; sur le caract&#232;re d&#233;sastreux de l'union de l'&#226;me avec le corps (p. 84). Cela donne l'occasion &#224; Pelosi d'&#233;laborer sur cette union et les probl&#232;mes qu'elle pose en &#233;tudiant la psychogonie du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt;. Il nous propose notamment une description des lieux dans lesquels se trouvent les diff&#233;rentes parties de l'&#226;me, qui ne sauraient &#234;tre pris pour des m&#233;taphores. Bien qu'une telle affirmation ne soit pas sans difficult&#233;s, dont l'une est que l'&#226;me bien qu'immat&#233;rielle est divis&#233;e en parties qui occupent un lieu &#8212; que Pelosi ne soul&#232;ve pas &#8212;, elle permet n&#233;anmoins de comprendre l'interaction des dimensions psychique et physique de l'&#234;tre humain, et au-del&#224;, le r&#244;le d'harmonisation de la partie rationnelle de l'&#226;me par la musique. Ce dernier point constitue l'objet de la seconde partie de ce chapitre : &#171; Music for thinking &#187;. L'A. entend montrer ici que la musique permet la restauration des facult&#233;s cognitives en produisant un mouvement psychique appropri&#233; (p. 91). Or cette restauration est possible non par l'interm&#233;diaire des sens mais du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;no&#251;s&lt;/i&gt;, comme le souligne l'A. (p. 95) ; ce qui remet en question le r&#244;le jou&#233; par la sensibilit&#233; dans la r&#233;ception de la musique tel qu'il appara&#238;t dans les &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lois&lt;/i&gt; et la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt;. Remarquons que dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; l'&#226;me rationnelle intervient de mani&#232;re pr&#233;pond&#233;rante dans la perception (p. 99). Un rapprochement avec le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; permet de comprendre cette intervention : &#171; we see and hear &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;with&lt;/i&gt; the soul, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;through&lt;/i&gt; eyes and ears &#187; (p. 99-100). Bien que cette conception instrumentale des sens ne soit pas propre au &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; ou au &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, cela signifie n&#233;anmoins que la musique atteint l'&#226;me rationnelle par l'interm&#233;diaire des sens, et, par cons&#233;quent, c'est elle qui est &#233;duqu&#233;e, non la sensibilit&#233;. La musique qui n'atteint que les sens produit un plaisir corporel et non intellectuel. Il y a place cependant selon Pelosi pour un plaisir qui implique &#224; la fois la sensibilit&#233; et la raison (p. 102). Si les &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lois&lt;/i&gt; d&#233;fendent en effet cette possibilit&#233;, il n'est pas certain que le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; n'envisage pas le plaisir musical d'un point de vue strictement intellectuel, d&#233;pourvu par cons&#233;quent de tout moment &#233;motif, contrairement &#224; ce que soutient l'A. que le passage qu'il cite ne semble pas appuyer. En 80b, il y est question de la joie du sage (&#949;&#8016;&#966;&#961;&#959;&#963;&#973;&#957;&#951;) par opposition au plaisir de l'insens&#233; (&#7969;&#948;&#959;&#957;&#8052;), mais la joie n'est pas ici n&#233;cessairement sensible et, en outre, le produit d'une mobilisation de la sensibilit&#233;. Pelosi indique d'ailleurs que le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; pr&#233;sente deux niveaux de r&#233;ception de la musique, l'une &#233;l&#233;mentaire (p. 106), l'autre, on peut le d&#233;duire, complexe, qui se caract&#233;rise par la saisie de l'harmonie divine (p. 107). N'est-ce pas pr&#233;cis&#233;ment cette saisie intellectuelle jointe &#224; l'harmonie de l'&#226;me rationnelle elle-m&#234;me qui produisent la joie qui est par cons&#233;quent purement rationnelle ? Le chapitre se termine sur un examen du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phil&#232;be&lt;/i&gt; pour &#233;claircir l'id&#233;e d'harmonie musicale comme synth&#232;se d'oppos&#233;s.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le chapitre trois est consacr&#233; &#224; l'&#233;ducation musicale de la rationalit&#233; et traite de la science harmonique telle qu'elle est expos&#233;e au livre VII de la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt;. Dans la premi&#232;re partie, l'A. se concentre sur l'harmonie comme base de l'&#233;ducation des futurs dialecticiens, qui diff&#232;re de l'&#233;ducation musicale expos&#233;e au livre III. Apr&#232;s une exposition du r&#244;le des &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mathemata&lt;/i&gt; dans la conversion de l'&#226;me, l'A. examine en particulier les sciences s&#339;urs depuis les Pythagoriciens : l'astronomie et l'harmonie. La relation entre le caract&#232;re sensible et intelligible de ces sciences est mise en perspective avec la n&#233;cessit&#233; d'aller au-del&#224; du sensible et d'abandonner par cons&#233;quent l'observation sensible au profit des probl&#232;mes (cf. 530b6-7). Mais pr&#233;cise Pelosi, il ne s'agit pas de faire totalement abstraction des ph&#233;nom&#232;nes. Platon ne d&#233;fend donc pas une science aprioriste, puisque l'astronomie repose sur une esp&#232;ce de va et vient entre le sensible et l'intelligible (p. 128). La deuxi&#232;me partie du chapitre traite de la science de l'harmonie. L'A. met en regard la conception platonicienne de l'harmonie avec celle des pythagoriciens, notamment le fragment 1 d'Archytas auquel Platon semble faire r&#233;f&#233;rence. Pelosi pr&#233;sente ensuite la critique de la conception empiriste de l'harmonie. Le point fondamental, me semble-t-il, n'est pas tant que les empiristes prennent pour fondement de la science la perception, bien que ce soit en effet une dimension importante de la critique, mais plut&#244;t et, par cons&#233;quent, que l'&#233;tude de l'harmonie &#8212; la critique vaut &#233;galement pour l'astronomie &#8212; ne saurait &#234;tre sa propre fin. Elle n'est en effet qu'un moyen, une prop&#233;deutique &#224; la science la plus haute : la dialectique (cf. 531d). Le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phil&#232;be&lt;/i&gt; est convoqu&#233; pour comprendre la critique de l'empirisme en relation &#224; la d&#233;finition de la musique comme &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;stochastik&#234;&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;techn&#234;&lt;/i&gt; (56a3-7). Suit un examen d&#233;taill&#233; de la critique des pythagoriciens (p. 139-&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;fine&lt;/i&gt;) qui permet &#224; l'A. de d&#233;duire la conception platonicienne qui consiste selon les termes de l'A. d'aller au del&#224; de la dimension sonore de l'harmonie pour atteindre la dimension num&#233;rique. La question que pose pertinemment Pelosi est alors de comprendre la relation entre &#171; listening to music and going beyond listening to understand the intelligible structures of music? &#187; (p. 150), r&#233;ponse qui serait faite au chapitre suivant.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le chapitre quatre qui cl&#244;t l'ouvrage est intitul&#233; &#171; Music in the body and soul &#187;. La premi&#232;re partie de ce chapitre, qui en comporte deux, traite des ph&#233;nom&#232;nes acoustiques et des m&#233;canismes de perception avec un retour d'abord tr&#232;s rapide sur la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt; puis sur le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt;. Ce dernier traite abondamment du son, de la perception auditive et de ses m&#233;canismes. L'A. examine le passage 67a7-c3 dont il propose une traduction et un commentaire serr&#233;. La d&#233;finition platonicienne du son est discut&#233;e en relation d'abord avec les conceptions du son qu'on trouve chez les Pr&#233;socratiques, ensuite avec l'une des objections de Th&#233;ophraste (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;De Sen&lt;/i&gt;. 91). Le processus de perception de l'&#233;coute tel que d&#233;crit en &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; 67b est analys&#233; comme le r&#233;sultat d'un mouvement &#224; la fois dans le corps et dans l'&#226;me (p. 162). L'A. revient &#224; la d&#233;finition du son telle qu'on la trouve en &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; 80a-b o&#249; distinction est faite entre sons aigu et grave, rapide et lent qu'il confronte au fragment 1 d'Archytas. Un autre passage (79e10-80b5) permet &#224; Pelosi d'approfondir la question de la qualit&#233; du son dans sa relation au mouvement du son dans le corps. Il propose diff&#233;rentes interpr&#233;tations de cette relation, qui pr&#233;sentent chacune des difficult&#233;s pour comprendre la notion d'accord en offrant une solution int&#233;ressante sur le mouvement du son dans le corps (p. 178-9). La seconde partie &#171; The musicality of the psychic structure &#187; s'appuie sur le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#233;don&lt;/i&gt; en vue de l'examen de la th&#233;orie de l'&#226;me-harmonie. L'A. soutient que la critique de l'&#226;me-harmonie que conduit Socrate dans ce dialogue nous permet de comprendre sa reformulation dans d'autres dialogues, et notamment dans la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt;. Cette th&#233;orie repose sur l'affirmation selon laquelle l'&#226;me est au corps ce que l'harmonie est &#224; l'&#226;me (p. 181). La faiblesse de la th&#233;orie telle qu'elle est d&#233;velopp&#233;e par Simmias est qu'elle reconna&#238;t une d&#233;pendance de l'&#226;me au corps, que d&#233;savoue Socrate. Le probl&#232;me essentiel de la th&#233;orie de Simmias, comme le souligne Pelosi, est qu'elle repose sur une conception mat&#233;rialiste de l'harmonie, plus pr&#233;cis&#233;ment qu'elle fait d&#233;pendre l'&#226;me du corps et pose l'ant&#233;riorit&#233; du corps sur l'&#226;me. Platon propose une autre entente de l'harmonie de l'&#226;me dans la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt;. Nous trouvons en effet dans ce dialogue l'id&#233;e que la structure de l'&#226;me s'apparente &#224; une harmonie. Il faut cependant noter qu'&#224; la diff&#233;rence de la th&#233;orie propos&#233;e par Simmias, l'&#226;me doit &#234;tre harmonis&#233;e pour &#234;tre une structure harmonique. La diff&#233;rence ne repose donc pas uniquement sur une harmonie mat&#233;rielle et une harmonie psychique, m&#234;me si l'A. souligne cette diff&#233;rence avec raison (p. 184). En outre s'il est vrai que dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt; et le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach&#232;s&lt;/i&gt;, il y est question de consonance et de dissonance entre les actes et les discours et non entre les parties de l'&#226;me, nous avons pourtant une autre conception de l'harmonie dont l'absence r&#233;sulte d'un conflit entre les paroles et les actes. Il s'agit en effet d'harmoniser ces derniers de sorte que les premi&#232;res se refl&#232;tent dans les seconds. Dans la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt;, la justice r&#233;sulte de l'harmonisation des trois parties de l'&#226;me, comme le note l'A. Mais il faudrait ajouter que l'&#226;me est harmonie si et seulement si elle est juste. C'est ainsi qu'est d&#233;pass&#233;e la contradiction &#224; laquelle aboutissait Simmias selon laquelle une &#226;me vicieuse ne peut pas exister (93b-94b). Pelosi termine son investigation avec le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; en revenant &#224; l'examen de la psychogonie pour s'attarder sur la question de la division harmonique &#224; laquelle proc&#232;de le d&#233;miurge dans la cr&#233;ation de l'&#226;me humaine (p. 191-2). Cela fait de l'&#226;me rationnelle, comme le note l'A., le produit d'une &#171; composition harmonique de diff&#233;rents &#233;l&#233;ments &#187; (p. 194).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;L'objectif de cet ouvrage de comprendre comment la conception platonicienne de la musique permet de saisir de fa&#231;on plus large les relations &#226;me-corps a &#233;t&#233; atteint, nous semble-t-il. Il s'agit d'une &#233;tude de synth&#232;se du ph&#233;nom&#232;ne musical tel que le comprend Platon, et qui jette une lumi&#232;re int&#233;ressante et neuve sur sa &#171; philosophie de l'esprit &#187;.
&lt;br \&gt;&lt;br \&gt;
Catherine Collobert (Universit&#233; d'Ottawa)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		
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		<title>2. Compte rendu de J. B. Kennedy,The Musical Structure of Plato's Dialogues, Durham, Acumen, 2011, 318 p.</title>
		<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article111</link>
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		<dc:date>2013-03-24T11:06:26Z</dc:date>
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		<dc:language>en</dc:language>
		<dc:creator>COLLOBERT, Catherine</dc:creator>



		<description>Cet ouvrage, compos&#233; de huit chapitres et de neuf appendices (qui contiennent des pr&#233;cisions utiles sur la m&#233;thode propos&#233;e), pr&#233;sente une th&#232;se originale et controvers&#233;e selon laquelle une structure musicale sous-tend les dialogues platoniciens, et en permet une plus riche compr&#233;hension. J. B. Kennedy s'appuie sur deux dialogues, le Banquet et l'Euthyphron pour la d&#233;montrer. Avant d'introduire sa m&#233;thodologie, il prend soin de tracer l'origine de ce type d'interpr&#233;tation pour en d&#233;fendre la pertinence. (&amp;hellip;)

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&lt;a href="http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?rubrique13" rel="directory"&gt;12. Plato 12 (2012)&lt;/a&gt;


		</description>


 <content:encoded>&lt;div class='rss_texte'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cet ouvrage, compos&#233; de huit chapitres et de neuf appendices (qui contiennent des pr&#233;cisions utiles sur la m&#233;thode propos&#233;e), pr&#233;sente une th&#232;se originale et controvers&#233;e selon laquelle une structure musicale sous-tend les dialogues platoniciens, et en permet une plus riche compr&#233;hension. J. B. Kennedy s'appuie sur deux dialogues, le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Banquet&lt;/i&gt; et l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphron&lt;/i&gt; pour la d&#233;montrer. Avant d'introduire sa m&#233;thodologie, il prend soin de tracer l'origine de ce type d'interpr&#233;tation pour en d&#233;fendre la pertinence. C'est l'objet du chapitre 1 intitul&#233; &#171; The nature and history of philosophical allegory &#187;. Il s'ouvre imm&#233;diatement sur l'affirmation fondamentale de l'interpr&#233;tation d&#233;fendue par l'auteur : &#171; there is a musical scale embodied in each of Plato's dialogues. Symbolic passages at regular intervals are used to mark successive notes &#187; (p. 1). C'est &#224; une ancienne tradition d'interpr&#233;tation que l'A. entend ici revenir, celle de la tradition all&#233;goriste qu'il pr&#233;sente en proc&#233;dant &#224; une revue rapide de la litt&#233;rature sur le sujet. L'A. doit donc d&#233;fendre la possibilit&#233; que Platon all&#233;gorise et que se trouve dans les dialogues une sympathie &#224; l'&#233;gard de la pratique de l'all&#233;gorie. Cependant, le fait que l'all&#233;gorie soit un th&#232;me des dialogues comme il est affirm&#233;, et que les dialogues sont une forme sup&#233;rieure de litt&#233;rature (p. 8) ne sauraient constituer des arguments en faveur de l'all&#233;gorie : toute litt&#233;rature n'est pas n&#233;cessairement all&#233;gorique et discuter m&#234;me de fa&#231;on r&#233;currente d'une pratique ne signifie pas que l'on est un d&#233;fenseur et un utilisateur de cette pratique. L'A. &#233;tablit un lien entre la pratique du secret chez les Pythagoriciens (l'all&#233;gorie &#233;tant un moyen de masquer des doctrines qui pouvaient repr&#233;senter un danger pour ses d&#233;fenseurs &#8212; comme l'attestent les diff&#233;rentes pers&#233;cutions des Pythagoriciens, des ath&#233;es, et de Socrate lui-m&#234;me &#8212;) et les r&#233;f&#233;rences aux Pythagoriciens pr&#233;sentes dans les dialogues pour conclure au pythagorisme de Platon et en cons&#233;quence &#224; la pratique platonicienne de l'all&#233;gorie. L'A. s'appuie ici notamment sur les travaux de Sayre (1983), Kahn (1996, 2001) et Dillon (2003) pour d&#233;fendre l'id&#233;e d'une ontologie non &#233;crite de nature pythagoricienne (&#171; quasi-pythagorean ontology &#187;, p. 17). Le soutien qu'apportent ces travaux &#224; la th&#232;se de l'A. n'est cependant pas tr&#232;s clair. Les affinit&#233;s que Platon peut avoir avec le pythagorisme, comme le reconnaissent ces trois auteurs, ne fait toutefois pas de Platon un pythagoricien masqu&#233;. Il faudrait ici plus d'arguments que n'en apporte l'A. et notamment un examen des divergences avec les Pythagoriciens pr&#233;sentes dans les dialogues. Les lectures all&#233;goriques de Platon n'ont pas manqu&#233; d'appara&#238;tre dans l'Antiquit&#233; tardive et la Renaissance, dont certaines sugg&#232;rent l'existence de doctrines pythagoriciennes cach&#233;es dans les dialogues. Cependant, le lien entre pratique de l'all&#233;gorie et doctrines pythagoriciennes est mis &#224; mal dans la lecture all&#233;gorique chr&#233;tienne de Platon, qui voit Platon plut&#244;t comme l'annonciateur du message chr&#233;tien. En outre, on ne voit pas bien pourquoi il faudrait rapprocher l'existence d'une tradition &#233;sot&#233;rique chr&#233;tienne avec la pratique de l'&#233;sot&#233;risme chez Platon. L'A. semble ici vouloir montrer que la pratique de l'all&#233;gorie est une pratique dominante attest&#233;e par diff&#233;rentes traditions ; ce qui l&#233;gitimerait le fait d'inclure Platon dans cette tradition. Ce premier chapitre se termine sur une pr&#233;sentation des interpr&#233;tations stichom&#233;triques de l'ouvrage d'Edmund Spencer, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Epithalamion&lt;/i&gt; &#233;crit en 1595, par A.K. Hieatt (1960) et Fowler (1964).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le second chapitre &#171; Introducing the dialogues' musical structure &#187; pr&#233;sente la m&#233;thode utilis&#233;e pour mettre au jour la structure musicale et stichom&#233;trique des dialogues, qui montre la pr&#233;sence r&#233;currente de symboles musicaux &#224; intervalles r&#233;guliers. L'A. pr&#233;cise que cette structure est devenue illisible du fait de l'absence d'uniformit&#233; des lignes et des colonnes sur les copies tardives, puis avec l'&#233;dition d'Henri Estiennes (p. 32). On ne comprend cependant pas ce que l'A. veut dire ici car si cette structure &#233;tait apparente, le lecteur pouvait ais&#233;ment lire, sans d&#233;chiffrement intense, la doctrine soi-disant cach&#233;e.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le symbolisme musical de Platon est, selon l'A., une caract&#233;ristique essentielle du pythagorisme de Platon. Chaque dialogue pr&#233;sente une gamme &#224; douze tons qui se divisent en demi-tons et quart de tons, l'intervalle minimal. Il s'agit donc en suivant cette gamme de diviser le dialogue en douze parties ; chaque partie correspondant &#224; un ton est divis&#233;e en quatre sous-parties (quart de ton). L'A. distingue ensuite les intervalles consonants et dissonants en fonction de sa relation &#224; la douzi&#232;me note. Les notes 3, 4, 6, 8 et 9 sont consonantes, 5, 7, 10 et 11 dissonantes. Les autres notes de la gamme sont plus ou moins neutres : ni consonante ni dissonante. Pr&#233;cisons que la gamme &#224; douze tons n'est pas habituelle, les gammes utilis&#233;es &#233;taient en effet &#224; huit tons (deux t&#233;tracordes) : tel est le cas des gammes dorienne, myxolidienne, lydienne, phrygienne, etc. distingu&#233;es en fonction de la premi&#232;re note de la gamme et du premier intervalle ton ou demi-ton avec essentiellement trois intervalles consonants : la quarte, la quinte et l'octave (que renferme la t&#233;traktys). Nous rencontrons une allusion &#224; la gamme &#224; douze tons dans un passage du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; (35a-36b) sur la formation de l'&#226;me du monde, que l'A. aurait pu utilement citer (qui progresse selon le facteur 3 et non 2 comme dans la gamme &#224; huit tons). Les appendices 1 et 2 visent &#224; d&#233;fendre l'existence de la gamme &#224; douze tons dans les dialogues. L'A. y affirme d'abord le caract&#232;re novateur de Platon en mati&#232;re musicale, qui critique dans la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt; les th&#233;ories musicales d&#233;fendues par les Pythagoriciens, comme l'A. le reconna&#238;t lui-m&#234;me (p. 254). Il est dommage que l'A. n'examine pas cette dissension et ne tente pas de montrer comment elle peut se concilier avec un Platon pythagoricien. L'appendice 2 analyse des passages dans lesquels Th&#233;on de Smyrne soutient l'appartenance pythagoricienne de Platon et des passages de Thrasylle qui atteste de l'existence d'une gamme &#224; 12 tons. L'un des deux pythagoriciens a reconnu selon l'A. l'existence d'all&#233;gories musicales chez Platon. On peut toutefois s'interroger sur la fiabilit&#233; et la cr&#233;dibilit&#233; des t&#233;moins ici, qui semblent plus ou moins agir pourtant comme arguments d'autorit&#233; pour notre auteur.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;On aurait aim&#233; ici plus de pr&#233;cisions sur la distinction entre note consonante et note dissonante dans la mesure o&#249; cette distinction est d&#233;terminante dans l'argumentation g&#233;n&#233;rale : &#171; The underlying consonance and dissonance of the musical notes accounts for the peculiar structure of Plato's dialogues &#187; (p. 38). Notes dissonantes et notes consonantes renvoient &#224; des passages du texte qui pr&#233;sentent des affirmations disharmonieuses et harmonieuses. C'est ainsi selon l'A. que la structure narrative refl&#232;te la structure musicale (p. 41). Par exemple, les deux passages o&#249; Diotime fait l'&#233;loge de la beaut&#233; se trouvent aux notes 8.0 et 9.0 (notes consonantes). &#192; l'inverse, le passage situ&#233; &#224; la note 7.1 (note dissonante) pr&#233;sente les vertus et les vices d'&#201;ros. Il n'est pas clair ici pourquoi les vertus d'&#201;ros sont sur une note dissonante, m&#234;me si comme le soutient l'A. &#171; the opposing elements are permanently harnessed together, but they remain an unhappy combination of positive and negative &#187; (p. 44). Une note neutre aurait pu tout aussi bien convenir &#224; la nature du passage, &#224; moins que Platon ne veuille nous faire comprendre la nature essentiellement disharmonieuse d'&#201;ros, mais ce n'est pas ce qui semble &#234;tre affirm&#233; dans ce dialogue, pas plus que dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;L'A. expose ensuite sa m&#233;thode pour compter les lignes et ainsi diviser le texte. Il prend soin de pr&#233;ciser que l'exactitude ne saurait &#234;tre absolue du fait de la corruption toujours possible du texte. Il pr&#233;tend cependant pouvoir d&#233;terminer les passages corrompus gr&#226;ce &#224; la stichom&#233;trie. Le chapitre se termine sur des r&#233;ponses &#224; des objections possibles. L'A. se d&#233;fend de soutenir l'existence de doctrines non &#233;crites avec raison, puisque, selon lui, les dialogues par leur structure m&#234;me contiennent des doctrines bien que non apparentes et pythagoriciennes.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le chapitre trois &#171; Independant lines of evidence &#187; se propose de valider pour l'ensemble des dialogues la division en douze parties en montrant que les discours de Socrate comme de ses interlocuteurs poss&#232;dent un rapport de 12. Par exemple, le discours d'Eryximaque et d'Aristophane constituent un douzi&#232;me du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Banquet&lt;/i&gt;, celui de Socrate trois douzi&#232;me. Dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;M&#233;n&#233;x&#232;ne&lt;/i&gt;, le long discours de Socrate occupe les deux douzi&#232;me du dialogue (p. 53). Le nombre douze joue un r&#244;le dans l'architecture g&#233;n&#233;rale des dialogues et de nombreux exemples sont donn&#233;s pour illustrer ce r&#244;le. L'A. montre en outre que des affirmations concordantes (sur la sagesse et la justice du philosophe) dans diff&#233;rents dialogues se trouvent aux m&#234;mes endroits dans ces dialogues, c'est-&#224;-dire &#224; peu pr&#232;s au centre. Nous trouvons ainsi une parent&#233; de structure, reflet d'une parent&#233; th&#233;matique entre les dialogues.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le chapitre quatre examine en d&#233;tail la structure du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Banquet&lt;/i&gt; et soutient la th&#232;se originale selon laquelle certains passages de ce dialogue &#171; contain a repeated cluster of symbols that can be understood only by comparing them to the theory of musical harmony expounded in Eryximachus' speech &#187; (p. 62). Cette th&#233;orie repose sur la principale affirmation que la musique est l'art d'harmoniser les oppos&#233;s. C'est sur la base de cette th&#233;orie que l'A. interpr&#232;te le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Banquet&lt;/i&gt; et y d&#233;couvre des symboles pythagoriciens (p. 63). On aimerait ici que l'A. soit plus pr&#233;cis sur les symboles. Par exemple, il est possible que le terme &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;amelet&#234;tos&lt;/i&gt; ait &#171; a symbolic import &#187;, mais en quoi est-il pythagoricien (p. 67)? Il aurait &#233;t&#233; en outre int&#233;ressant pour la th&#232;se m&#234;me de l'A. de confronter la th&#233;orie musicale propos&#233;e par Eryximaque (m&#233;decin) avec celle des pythagoriciens et montrer plus en d&#233;tail que Platon fait sienne cette th&#233;orie. La mention d'un passage des &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lois&lt;/i&gt; (664e8-a2) est trop rapide pour constituer ici un argument tout comme la r&#233;action d'Alcibiade (p. 62-3). Le discours des symposiastes est ainsi compos&#233; de moments d'opposition et d'harmonie qui se situent respectivement &#224; des notes et quart de ton dissonants et consonants.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ce qui est vrai des discours l'est de l'ensemble du dialogue : les diff&#233;rentes voix des intervenants se trouvent harmonis&#233;es dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Banquet&lt;/i&gt; (et dans tout dialogue), ce qui est l'objet du cinqui&#232;me chapitre intitul&#233; &#171; Making the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium&lt;/i&gt;'s musical structure explicit &#187;. L'A. distingue donc entre les discours harmonieux, disharmonieux et neutres : &#224; la premi&#232;re cat&#233;gorie appartient le discours d'Aristophane, &#224; la seconde celui d'Alcibiade, et &#224; la derni&#232;re le discours de Ph&#232;dre. Le discours de Pausanias qui d&#233;fend un &#171; esth&#233;tisme d&#233;cadent &#187; selon les termes de l'A. (p. 87) est l&#233;g&#232;rement dissonant. La note 2 o&#249; appara&#238;t ce discours a pourtant &#233;t&#233; qualifi&#233;e de neutre au chapitre deux (p. 35). Mais Pausanias &#171; platonise &#187; (qu'on me permette l'expression) &#224; la note 3 (note consonante) lorsqu'il affirme que la poursuite du bien est cruciale pour la vertu (p. 95). Le discours d'Agathon sur la note dissonante 5 appartient selon l'A. &#224; la rh&#233;torique sophistique (p.119). Il faudrait sans doute nuancer l'affirmation selon laquelle s'interroger sur la nature d'&#233;ros et de ses effets est &#171; a sophistic jingle &#187; (p. 118). Socrate reprendra dans son discours cette question et fera part de son accord avec Agathon sur la m&#233;thode (201d-e) &#8212; ce que souligne d'ailleurs l'A. (p. 127) &#8212;, mais le contenu sera &#233;videmment r&#233;fut&#233;. Le discours de Socrate qui s'&#233;tend de la note 6 &#224; la note 9 est ainsi un m&#233;lange de consonances et de dissonances. Le discours d'Alcibiade (note 10 &#224; 11) est dissonant &#224; l'exception de deux passages. Il est ici curieux que le passage qui voit en Socrate un musicien soit dissonant d'autant que l'A. s'appuie sur ce passage pour soutenir son interpr&#233;tation d'ensemble (p. 63). Il est vrai que Socrate est ici compar&#233; &#224; un joueur de fl&#251;te &#8212; instrument dionysiaque associ&#233; &#224; la d&#233;mesure et condamn&#233; pour cette raison dans la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;R&#233;publique&lt;/i&gt;. Les images qui sont ici mobilis&#233;es ne sont-elles pas n&#233;gatives qu'en apparence ? ainsi le sil&#232;ne qui cache une int&#233;riorit&#233; harmonieuse, cette beaut&#233; qu'Alcibiade a pr&#233;cis&#233;ment su voir en Socrate ?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le chapitre six consacr&#233; &#224; l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphron&lt;/i&gt; d&#233;fend l'existence d'une m&#234;me structure musicale qui s'&#233;tend &#224; l'ensemble des dialogues. L'A. recourt au m&#234;me sch&#233;ma d'analyse qui lui permet de soutenir que l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphron&lt;/i&gt; n'est pas un dialogue apor&#233;tique, mais qu'il s'ach&#232;ve sur une d&#233;finition de la pi&#233;t&#233;. Les &#233;l&#233;ments doctrinaux sont plac&#233;s comme dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Banquet&lt;/i&gt; sur des notes consonantes (p. 221). La note 9 joue selon l'A. un r&#244;le pr&#233;pond&#233;rant et est associ&#233;e au &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;climax&lt;/i&gt; de l'argumentation &#8212; r&#244;le identique dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Banquet&lt;/i&gt;. De m&#234;me &#224; la note 10.3, l'A. &#233;tablit un parall&#232;le entre la demande d'Alcibiade &#224; Socrate d'&#234;tre son amant et celle de Socrate &#224; Euthyphron qui demande &#224; ce dernier d'&#234;tre son ma&#238;tre. Nous avons dans les deux cas un refus de la part de celui qui est sollicit&#233;. Cependant, si la premi&#232;re demande est sinc&#232;re, la seconde l'est sans doute moins et l'ironie de Socrate est patente.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le chapitre sept &#171; Extracting doctrine from structure &#187; introduit la stichom&#233;trie pour justifier la possibilit&#233; de doctrines cach&#233;es que r&#233;v&#232;lerait la structure. Il s'attache pour cela &#224; montrer que la doctrine du juste milieu d&#233;fendue par Aristote est d&#233;j&#224; pr&#233;sente chez Platon mais de mani&#232;re voil&#233;e ou cach&#233;e. On trouve la pr&#233;sence parfois allusive de cette doctrine dans les dialogues gr&#226;ce &#224; la stichom&#233;trie. Cette pr&#233;sence se trouvant environ &#224; la seconde moiti&#233; du dialogue (autour de 61%). Cependant l'A. nous pr&#233;vient que l'argument qu'il entend &#233;tablir est conditionnel et qu'il faut &#234;tre prudent quant &#224; la mise au jour d'allusions dans le texte, qui ne peuvent &#234;tre que probables (p. 242).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Toutefois une question demeure : si, comme l'affirme l'A. &#224; de multiples reprises, la structure narrative refl&#232;te la structure musicale, que nous r&#233;v&#232;le de plus la structure musicale que ce qui est &#224; &#171; la surface &#187; du texte ? Si en effet le texte montre clairement qu'il y a accord et harmonie qu'ajoute le fait que cet accord d&#233;celable par cons&#233;quent dans le texte soit &#224; une note consonante ? La musique ne fait ici que refl&#233;ter un contenu visible : le texte est en accord avec la musique. La musique n'exprime pas ce qui n'est pas dans le texte, autrement dit, elle ne fonctionne pas comme un suppl&#233;ment de sens qu'il faudrait mettre au jour et qui serait &#233;ventuellement le sens v&#233;ritable uniquement accessible &#224; ceux capables de voir. Ce qui est &#224; la surface du texte est aussi ce qui est sous la lettre du texte : les deux co&#239;ncident. Cette co&#239;ncidence que ne manque pas de mettre en &#233;vidence l'A. tout au long de son analyse du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Banquet&lt;/i&gt; comme de l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphron&lt;/i&gt; s'accorde mal (sans jeu de mots) avec l'intention premi&#232;re que l'A. d&#233;c&#232;le chez Platon, qui est d'introduire dans le texte des doctrines cach&#233;es.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;L'A. aborde cette question au dernier chapitre qui conclut sur les implications de la structure musicale dans l'interpr&#233;tation des dialogues. Ces implications sont de taille puisque nombre de probl&#232;mes &#233;pineux se trouvent ainsi r&#233;solus notamment ceux de l'anonymat et de l'intention. Platon parle de sa propre voix aux notes consonantes : &#171; Consonant notes are associated with harmonious, positive or more Platonic ideas &#187;. C'est ce qui permet &#224; l'A. d'affirmer &#171; That this passage is lodged at a dissonant note shows that its [Diotima's character] doctrines are not Platonic &#187;). Le discours d'Aristophane, sur une note consonante, est de ce fait platonisant. Pourtant, la d&#233;finition d'&#201;ros sera r&#233;fut&#233;e par Diotime, comme l'A. le reconna&#238;t (p. 141). Cette r&#233;futation est cruciale pour conduire &#224; la contemplation du Beau selon Diotime (la partie de ce discours sur une note consonante est platonicien). Il est en outre affirm&#233; que la premi&#232;re partie du discours de Diotime (sur une note dissonante) est anti-platonicien. Pourtant ce discours g&#233;n&#233;alogique sur &#201;ros explicite la nature du d&#233;sir comme manque, qui est centrale dans les dialogues.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le traitement de la r&#233;futation me semble en outre probl&#233;matique. Le fait que la r&#233;futation soit toujours sur une note dissonante ne saurait indiquer dans tous les cas que Platon est en d&#233;saccord avec la r&#233;futation men&#233;e. Ainsi lorsque Diotime r&#233;fute Agathon (note dissonante), Platon est-il en d&#233;saccord ? Il ne le semble pas, selon le traitement du discours d'Agathon par l'A. lui-m&#234;me. De m&#234;me Platon est-il en d&#233;saccord avec la r&#233;futation d'Euthyphron men&#233;e par Socrate dans le dialogue &#233;ponyme ? Ici encore pas selon les analyses de l'A. La seconde question celle de l'intention est laiss&#233;e en suspens, l'A. reconnaissant que des doutes l&#233;gitimes demeurent (p. 247).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le probl&#232;me essentiel de la th&#232;se g&#233;n&#233;rale est celui de l'existence de doctrines platoniciennes. L'A. renoue avec la tradition d'un Platon dogmatique poss&#233;dant un corps de doctrines dont l'ensemble forme un platonisme pythagoricien dont on regrette cependant qu'il ne soit pas plus approfondi et justifi&#233;. Il s'agit n&#233;anmoins d'une lecture stimulante qui soul&#232;ve de nombreux probl&#232;mes relativement &#224; la question du platonisme. Ce travail m&#233;rite d'&#234;tre salu&#233; pour son originalit&#233;. &lt;br \&gt;&lt;br \&gt;
Catherine Collobert (Universit&#233; d'Ottawa)&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		
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		<title>3. Review of Moore, Kenneth Royce. Plato, Politics and a Practical Utopia.London: Continuum. 2012. ISBN 978-1-4411-5317-3</title>
		<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article112</link>
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		<dc:date>2013-03-24T11:06:24Z</dc:date>
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		<dc:language>en</dc:language>
		<dc:creator>FUTTER, Dylan</dc:creator>



		<description>In Plato, Politics and a Practical Utopia Kenneth Royce Moore offers a working model of Magnesia, the city of Plato's Laws. His method is to treat the &#8220;second-best city&#8221; &#8220;as if it were a real polis of the ancient world&#8221; (p. 82). Moore's conclusion is that Plato has created a &#8220;fairly large city&#8221;, with some unusual institutional features, but one that is &#8220;strangely practical&#8221; and firmly grounded in reality (p. ix). &lt;br /&gt;The Laws is often said to be a long and rambling work showing &#8220;various signs of (&amp;hellip;)


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 <content:encoded>&lt;div class='rss_texte'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;In &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato, Politics and a Practical Utopia &lt;/i&gt;Kenneth Royce Moore offers a working model of Magnesia, the city of Plato's&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; Laws&lt;/i&gt;. His method is to treat the &#8220;second-best city&#8221; &#8220;as if it were a real polis of the ancient world&#8221; (p. 82). Moore's conclusion is that Plato has created a &#8220;fairly large city&#8221;, with some unusual institutional features, but one that is &#8220;strangely practical&#8221; and firmly grounded in reality (p. ix).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt; is often said to be a long and rambling work showing &#8220;various signs of incompleteness&#8221;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb2-1&quot; name=&quot;nh2-1&quot; id=&quot;nh2-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[1] Bobonich 2002, p. 114; cf. Schofield 2010, p. 12.' &gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] Unlike its primary text, Moore's book is short (136 pages) and readable. After a general introduction to the polis and its theory up until the time of Plato, the main elements of Magnesia's social and political organization are analysed. Chapter 2 handles the economy, chapter 3 the military, chapter 4 the judiciary, and chapter 5 the structure of government. Chapter 6 rounds things off by inviting the reader on an imaginative &#8220;tour&#8221; of the city. The whole is a useful overview of the Magnesian polity.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Some problems with organisation should be mentioned. Chapter 1 is entitled &#8220;The Development of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Polis&lt;/i&gt; and its Re-Development Under Plato&#8221;. It covers the following topics in sequence: a general history of the polis (pp. 2-6); the dramatic setting of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;(p. 6); Plato's likely &#8220;inspiration&#8221; for writing the dialogue (p. 6); reasons for the location of Magnesia (p. 7); the Cretan and Spartan constitutions (pp. 8-10); and the role of myth in the founding of the city (pp. 10-11). The result is a somewhat disconnected series of topics shoehorned into a slightly artificial rubric. Organizational problems reoccur to some extent in succeeding chapters.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;There are also some infelicities in copy-editing and style. Glen Morrow is referred to as Glen Marrow (viii). Sentences are repeated nearly verbatim at different points within the text (bits of chapter 1, p. 10, repeated in chapter 2, n. 99; bits of p. 34 repeated on p. 83; etc). Quoting and idea attribution are not transparently clear. For instance, Morrow is quoted in support of the view that the guardians of the laws (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;nomophylakes&lt;/i&gt;) add a &#8220;monarchical element in the city&#8221; (p. 88). This seems a puzzling claim. What must be understood is that Morrow is responding to Aristotle's objection that there is &#8220;no monarchical element in Plato's state&#8221; (1960, p. 525; cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Pol&lt;/i&gt;. 1265b 28ff., 1266a 2ff.). He argues, in defence of Plato, that &#8220;monarchical&#8221; should be interpreted broadly as a &#8220;recognized center or source of authority&#8221; (ibid. p. 526). None of this can be readily understood by the reader: the attribution is misleading (see also p. 28, p. 30; cf. Morrow 1960, p. 192).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Moore's book is historical in orientation and tends to avoid discussion of philosophical and hermeneutic questions. This may seem objectionable. First, it is unclear how Moore's conception of Plato's second city as a &#8220;practical utopia&#8221; squares with his general methodology of treating Magnesia as if it were a &#8220;real polis of the ancient world&#8221; (p. 82). He seems to hold that Magnesia would be practicable if it corresponded in certain dimensions with known city-states of antiquity (p. 39). But should we expect this sort of correspondence of a practical &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;utopia&lt;/i&gt;? Secondly, the author's handling of the relation between the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; and the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt; is somewhat problematic. Moore assumes without argument that &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; articulates Plato's ideal city, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;, his second-best city. He also takes for granted that the city of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; is an impossible ideal (p. 2). Both assumptions are questionable. As others have noted, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; falls short of the Athenian's best city, which requires complete communism of property and family (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt; 739a3-740c3). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb2-2&quot; name=&quot;nh2-2&quot; id=&quot;nh2-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[2] See Bononich 2006 and Laks 1990.' &gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] And Socrates goes to substantial trouble in arguing that his &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Kallipolis&lt;/i&gt; could be realized (471e4-540d3). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb2-3&quot; name=&quot;nh2-3&quot; id=&quot;nh2-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[3] See Laks 1990, pp. 214-216 on Socrates&amp;#39; conception of possibility.' &gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] Reasonable responses to these concerns may be given. But since Moore does not consider his position to be controversial, he does not provide such responses.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;A further concern arises from Moore's handling of the literary dimensions of Plato's text. The &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt; is formally speaking a direct dialogue. It represents a conversation between three individuals with discernible personalities. Moore almost entirely neglects the dialogical form of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;. This seems inevitable given the nature of his project: treating the text as though it were an exercise in urban planning, written at a time when &#8220;the prospect of founding a colony was not purely hypothetical&#8221; (p. 13). Now, at the level of the drama, the city of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt; is clearly intended to be practicable. The Cretan Clinias enjoins his interlocutors to assist him in constructing &#8220;an imaginary community&#8221; for possible use as a &#8220;framework for the future state&#8221; which the Cnossians are attempting to found (703d1-5). On the other hand, at the level of the author, it can seem that the point of the&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; Laws&lt;/i&gt; is to show the impossibility of constructing a virtuous society without someone like Socrates. The dramatic date of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt; is prior to the Peloponnesian War and the Athenian Stranger, a pre-Socratic figure. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb2-4&quot; name=&quot;nh2-4&quot; id=&quot;nh2-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[4] Zuckert 2009, p. 51 ff.' &gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] The Athenian's recommendation that the Nocturnal Council undertake inquiries into the unity of the virtues, goodness and beauty (963 ff.) may suggest that Plato is leading &#8220;his readers to ask whether the pre-Socratic philosophy on which the Athenian [relies] is adequate to support his political project&#8221; (Zuckert 2009, 56). The neglected literary features of Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;and more general questions of Platonic interpretation are relevant to the very feasibility of Moore's study.
&lt;br \&gt;&lt;br \&gt;
Dylan FUTTER&lt;br \&gt;
University of the Witwatersrand&lt;br \&gt;
Johannesburg, South Africa&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;hr /&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_notes'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh2-1&quot; name=&quot;nb2-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 2-1&quot;&gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] Bobonich 2002, p. 114; cf. Schofield 2010, p. 12.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh2-2&quot; name=&quot;nb2-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 2-2&quot;&gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] See Bononich 2006 and Laks 1990.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh2-3&quot; name=&quot;nb2-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 2-3&quot;&gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] See Laks 1990, pp. 214-216 on Socrates' conception of possibility.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh2-4&quot; name=&quot;nb2-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 2-4&quot;&gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] Zuckert 2009, p. 51 ff.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_ps'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Bobonich, C. 2002. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Utopia Recast: His Later Ethics and Politics&lt;/i&gt;. New York: Oxford University Press.&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Bobonich, C. 2006. &#8220;Plato on Utopia&#8221;. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Stanford Encyclopedia of Philosophy. (Fall 2008 Edition)&lt;/i&gt;, Edward N. Zalta (ed.), URL : &lt;a href=&quot;http://plato.stanford.edu/archives/fall2008/entries/plato-utopia/&quot; class=&quot;spip_out&quot;&gt;http://plato.stanford.edu/archives/fall2008/entries/plato-utopia/&lt;/a&gt;.&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Bobonich, C. 2010. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Laws: a Critical Guide.&lt;/i&gt; Cambridge; New York: Cambridge University Press.&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laks, A. 1990. &#8220;Legislation and Demiurgy: On the Relationship between Plato's &#8216;Republic' and &#8216;Laws'&#8221;. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Classical Antiquity&lt;/i&gt; 9 (2): 209-229.&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Morrow, G. 1960. Plato's Cretan City: A Historical Interpretation of the Laws. Princeton: Princeton University Press.&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Schofield, M. 1999. &#8220;The &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws' &lt;/i&gt;Two Projects&#8221;. In C. Bobonich ed. 2010.&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Zuckert, C. 2009. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Philosophers: The Coherence of the Dialogues&lt;/i&gt;. Chicago: University of Chicago Press.&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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		<title>4. Review of McPherran, M. L. (ed), Plato's Republic: a critical guide. Cambridge, 2010.</title>
		<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article113</link>
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		<dc:date>2013-03-24T11:06:21Z</dc:date>
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		<dc:creator>ARAUJO, Carolina</dc:creator>



		<description>Cambridge University Press presents its new series of scholarly guides dedicated to specific philosophical works and the Republic is the first work of Plato to receive a volume. The 273 pages constitute a remarkable piece of contemporary scholarship, both when it comes to the valuable (although unevenly distributed) contribution to the present state of Platonic studies, and when it comes to the (poor) cooperative and dialogical work this scholarship is able to produce. As is now customary (&amp;hellip;)

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 <content:encoded>&lt;div class='rss_texte'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cambridge University Press presents its new series of scholarly guides dedicated to specific philosophical works and the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; is the first work of Plato to receive a volume. The 273 pages constitute a remarkable piece of contemporary scholarship, both when it comes to the valuable (although unevenly distributed) contribution to the present state of Platonic studies, and when it comes to the (poor) cooperative and dialogical work this scholarship is able to produce. As is now customary in the academy, this volume brings together papers presented in a conference &#8211; in this case the Thirteenth Annual Arizona Colloquium in Ancient Philosophy; but if the purpose of such an enterprise is to keep the community informed about agreements and disagreements in the recent analysis conducted by experts in the field, this book falls short. Obviously, when some of the best and most serious international scholars were brought together to discuss one single book, agreement could not to be expected. However, what we see is that disagreement is not present either, or worse, what is noticed is the lack of dialogue itself. The model of a guide &#8211; an assistant companion to a philosophical journey that would present information and arguments in a structured way &#8211; is itself misleading, as well as its general organization in chapters, since, in the words of the editor, this is &#8220;a series of reflective essays rather than providing systematic and comprehensive descriptive coverage of that text&#8221; (p. 2).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The book opens with G. R. F. Ferrari's (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socrates in the&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;) insightful description of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; as an internally narrated dialogue, which would contrast Socrates' character, in for example his sincere hesitation or reluctance to speak, to Plato's calculated composition strategy. This composition strategy would consist in a conscious shift from the &#8220;inquisitorial dialectic of Book 1 to the didactic-cum-investigative dialectic of Books 2&#8211;10&#8221; (p. 28). This conclusion has an evident connection to R. Barney's defense of ring composition as a philosophical method in the following chapter (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platonic ring-composition and Republic 10&lt;/i&gt;). According to Barney, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; is constituted by five themes &#8211; (A) katabasis and return; (B) death; (C&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&lt;/i&gt;) the challenge and the answer; (D) the city and (E) poetry and the arts &#8211; ordered as concentric circles according to their first presentation and their (sometimes complex) resolution, all of them &#8220;united to the inner dialectical core&#8221; (p. 43). When Ferrari's reader is confronted with Barney's claim that the ring composition is a proper form of the method of arguments to and from first principles, she cannot help but ask how the change in the persona of Socrates might explain the differences between presentation and resolution of themes; or if concentric circles would be compatible with a change between inquisitorial and didactical dialectic. Unfortunately not a single line is devoted to an attempt to weave the two hypotheses or to explain why they are incompatible.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Next we find J. Annas' comparative reading of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; and the Atlantis myth (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The Atlantis story: the Republic and the Timaeus&lt;/i&gt;), an analysis that simply takes for granted (i.e. from her previous work) the argumentative role of the city in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; as only an illustrative device to show that virtue is to be pursued whether recognized or not. If the reader wonders why she is supposed to accept this, all she can find are challenges to Annas' position, for example in the contributions of R. Kamtekar and Z. Hitz, and not a single word of response. Indeed R. Kamtekar's interesting analysis (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ethics and politics in Socrates' defense of justice&lt;/i&gt;) claims that the account of justice in the city ensures that the justice in the soul remains connected to the justice of actions, answering to Sach's notorious charge of fallacy in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;. While this point of view still maintains the general thesis that Plato's ultimate goal is to subordinate politics to ethics, it is far from Annas' position, quoted by Kamtekar, according to which the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; is &#8220;no serious matter for political discussion&#8221; (p. 66). A similar solution to the political concern in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; is suggested by Z. Hitz (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Degenerate regimes in Plato's Republic&lt;/i&gt;). If, one the one hand, Hitz claims that for Plato the political theory is submitted to moral theory, inasmuch as the choice of lives are made by individuals; on the other hand, she sees in the argument of the degenerated regimes in Books 8 and 9 a different function of reason which Plato could not have addressed through a simply ethical approach. According to it, reason is not only the part of the soul that produces virtue or, when neglected, shadows of virtue, but it is also an organizing principle, responsible for the definition and the structure of all the regimes, and this allows Hitz to conclude that &#8220;attribution of the dominant ends of &#8216;wealth' and &#8216;liberty' to the regimes ought to be understood as involving a critical judgment&#8221; (p. 121). This structural understanding of reason would clearly have consequences for Plato's account of the tripartition of the soul, the psychic justice and the different choices of life standards, but this is not Hitz's concern.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;We have to wait for M. McPherran's chapter (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Virtue, luck, and choice at the end of the Republic&lt;/i&gt;) to bring some light to the problem of life standards, more specifically to the necessity and contingency in the choice of lives as it is described in the myth of Er. McPherran claims that, despite all the defense of justice and knowledge throughout the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;, Plato's attempt succumbs in face of the evidence provided by its ending myth that the important choices are made in a state of lack of freedom, since Lachesis order the lots attribution, and of relative ignorance, since the choice is presented as an automatic reaction to the suffering experienced in one's previous incarnation, in a kind of causal chain which shows that reason is not the only and maybe not the most important agent of choice. If Plato's intention was &#8220;to keep the gods clear of responsibility of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;our &lt;/i&gt;wrongdoing and consequent suffer&#8221; (p. 135), and to prove that the justice is good by itself, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; would eventually provide only instrumental reasons for being just, based on the pain connected to injustice, while reason would still have to prove its contribution to happiness. This problem of the rational soul in book X is also addressed by C. Shields (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's divided soul&lt;/i&gt;) in its apparent contradiction with the city-modeled tripartition. Claiming that the tripartition is neither necessary nor exhaustive and that the soul cannot be considered an aggregate of independent parts, Shields suggests that they should be understood as aspectual parts, i.e., properties or features of the soul that would allow Plato to explain the phenomenological datum of internal strife. This device, argues Shield, would never compete with Plato's thesis that the soul is essentially one and rational. Needless to say, the aporia with which McPherran ends his chapter is deepened by Shield's claim about the rationality of the soul and Plato's defense of knowledge as a condition for right choice and happiness seems to be undermined by this series of isolated arguments. Unfortunately the situation does not seem to improve with N. Smith's courageous approach (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Return to the cave&lt;/i&gt;) to the problem of the happiness of a philosopher who must rule. Making the point that the return to the cave is just because it generates psychic harmony, Smith argues that not being immediately willing to do so reveals an epistemic fault in the individuals who have contemplated the good and hence a extraordinary kind of injustice, connected with the excessive happiness of the rational part of their soul. However, the consequence of this bright solution is highly controversial: those who must return to the cave are not yet philosopher-kings, but only philosophers, and this is not due to the city but to an educational deficiency in them, that would only be overcome by fifteen years of political apprenticeship. This overview shows that the connection between justice, happiness and reason is challenged in various ways by different contributions to this volume, and the reader still wonders if this different challenges can be unified in one strong argument against Plato's most important claim.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Another example of lack of dialogue is the parallel between Lesher's and Benson's conclusions about the divided line. Reviewing the occurrences of sapheneia in Greek Literature since Homer, J. H. Lesher (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The meaning of &#8220;saph&#275;neia&#8221; in Plato's Divided Line&lt;/i&gt;) claims that the criterion of differentiation between the stages of the line should be understood as &#8220;full, accurate and sure awareness of an object&#8221; (p. 171) rather than clarity in thought or expression. Of course this raises some problems about the two upper sections of the line, whose difference, according to Lesher, would then be between visible shapes and intelligible realities. This is exactly the thesis challenged by H. Benson (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's philosophical method in the Republic: the Divided&#8232;Line (510b&#8211;511d)&lt;/i&gt;), who claims that the difference between the two upper sections of the line is about the complete or incomplete employment of the method of hypothesis: dianoetic thought confines itself to what he calls the &#8220;proof stage&#8221;, while dialectic embraces both the proof and the confirmation stages. Going much further than simply stating the difference between philosophy and mathematics, Benson's description of the two uses of the method of hypothesis suggests a confrontation between Socratic examination of the consistency of an interlocutor's beliefs &#8211; a refutation according to opinion that would still draw consequences that are not genuine &#8211; and Platonic dialectic, which would test the consistency of features of a Form and would hence arrive at conclusions that are neither contingent nor artificial. The fact that both Lesher and Benson do not offer direct arguments against each other thesis leaves the impression that the ancient quarrel between propositions and objects in Plato's theory of knowledge is still a matter of taking your pick.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Also evident and silent is the dispute about Platonic education. C. D. C. Reeve (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Blindness and reorientation: education and the acquisition of knowledge in the Republic&lt;/i&gt;) understands books 2 and 3 as a proposal for the education of appetite and spirit, a thesis rejected thirty pages later by M. Schofield's remarks (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Music all pow'rful&lt;/i&gt;) on how music &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;in senso stretto&lt;/i&gt; develops the learning element in us (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;to philomathes&lt;/i&gt;), the same one that, once fully-fledged, turns into philosophy. Reeve emphasizes the role of objects in education, stressing the difference between reliable and unreliable paradigms, whose difference should not be considered metaphysical. However, to defend this position, he commits himself to a very disputable thesis, namely that &#8220;countenancing the good (&#8230;) is a precondition of countenancing any form&#8221; (p. 223). On the assumption that the form of the good should be understood as a principle of rational order and intelligibility, Reeve defends knowledge in restricted Platonic sense as a piecemeal infallible un-hypothetical cognition of a variety of Forms, acquired after the knowledge of the good, i.e., during the fifteen years that Smith has understood as a political, and not philosophical, apprenticeship (once more no word is to be found about the discrepancy between the two chapters). Schofield, in his turn, gives the volume an impressive end in defending the central importance of unconscious assimilation of right content in Plato's educational project, based mostly on the Damonian thesis that musical modes are expressions of thought and character, and on the perception of what he calls the audible structure, i.e., music's internal rational structure, which makes reason a condition for its full appreciation. These assumptions allow Schofield to defend musical mimesis as an effective character modeler, whose exceptional power can also be found in the description of justice in the soul as harmony: &#8220;learning to sing and play in such rhythms and modes will gradually shape the soul into concordant structures&#8221; (p. 238). The reader once again wonders about the rational structure and its precondition to knowledge: could music provide us the cognition of a rational structure of reality that would allow us to know Forms or would this be only possible by contemplating the Good?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;This concise presentation aims both to show how inspiring are the theses addressed in the book and to share the frustration caused by the inability of the authors to transform a series of contributions into a dialogue, especially when all of them have as their theme one single work, and especially when this work is the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;. What may appear to be only a question of what a book of scholarship is or should be is actually a Platonic question about academic practice and unity, be it in politics, in writing or in pursuing philosophy. A patchwork of doctrines recalls the bazaar of constitutions of a democratic state, and while we all must go there to choose the regime each of us would like to live in, this possibility of choice is only the point of departure for philosophy. Examining one's own premises and consequences under dialectical procedures is a condition for real community. No one says it is easy, but it is the property of beautiful things to be difficult. &lt;br \&gt;&lt;br \&gt;
Carolina Araujo&lt;br \&gt;
Universidade Federal do Rio de Janeiro&lt;br \&gt;
Capes/CNPq/Faperj&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		
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		<title>5. Review of Thomas L. Cooksey, Plato's Symposium: A Reader's Guide, Continuum, London-New York. 2010.</title>
		<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article114</link>
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		<dc:date>2013-03-24T11:06:19Z</dc:date>
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		<dc:language>en</dc:language>
		<dc:creator>CANDIOTTO, Laura</dc:creator>



		<description>The book consists of four chapters (1.Context; 2. Overview of Themes; 3. Reading the Text; 4. Reception and Influence) that offer the reader guidance in reading Plato's Symposium. Secondary literature is mostly in English. The line of interpretation may be defined as partly literary and partly thematic &#8212; being aware of the philosophical significance of the adopted style. The literary part contains a detailed description of the characters and the frame story; the thematic part comprises: (&amp;hellip;)

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&lt;a href="http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?rubrique13" rel="directory"&gt;12. Plato 12 (2012)&lt;/a&gt;


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 <content:encoded>&lt;div class='rss_texte'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The book consists of four chapters (1.Context; 2. Overview of Themes; 3. Reading the Text; 4. Reception and Influence) that offer the reader guidance in reading Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium&lt;/i&gt;. Secondary literature is mostly in English. The line of interpretation may be defined as partly literary and partly thematic &#8212; being aware of the philosophical significance of the adopted style. The literary part contains a detailed description of the characters and the frame story; the thematic part comprises: frequent comparisons and parallelisms, philosophical thoughts from another time (up to the present) and other disciplines, particularly from a psychological perspective. Even though the text might have a didactic approach [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb4-1&quot; name=&quot;nh4-1&quot; id=&quot;nh4-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[1] See the &#8220;discussion questions&#8221; proposed at the end of chapter 3, pp. (...)' &gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] it provides some interesting hermeneutic interpretations that I would like to underline:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;1) The &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;symposium&lt;/i&gt; as a literary device: it allows Plato to explore the power and nature of the erotic, and how it relates to issues of ethics, epistemology, and ontology. Moreover, it pretends to be the very representation of the nature of the philosopher. Cooksey reads the dialogue as a unit, taking a steep slope &#8212;though he does not really leave behind the slope already overcome&#8212; from the first &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;encomia&lt;/i&gt; to those of Diotima and Alcibiades, which are interpreted simultaneously [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb4-2&quot; name=&quot;nh4-2&quot; id=&quot;nh4-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[2] See paragraph 5.' &gt;2&lt;/a&gt;]. Plato conceived the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium &lt;/i&gt;as a tragic trilogy followed by a &quot;satyr- play&quot;. The first installment of Plato's trilogy can be characterized as &quot;Love and the individual&quot;, joining the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;encomia &lt;/i&gt;of Phaedrus and Pausanias into a contrasting pair that brings them together as dialectical complements to each other. The second installment might be called &quot;Love and nature&quot;. Here Eryximachus and Aristophanes form a dialectical complement. The third and culminating installment of the trilogy might be called &quot;Love in itself&quot;. Agathon and Socrates/Diotima form the dialectical complement. The &quot;satyr play&quot; of Alcibiades takes up the various themes developed during the course of the first three installments, translating them from the realm of the heroic and mythic into the living realm of humans.&lt;br \&gt;
In addition to this dramatic structure, Cooksey individualizes the larger narrative contexts represented by the roles played by Aristodemus, Apollodorus, and ultimately Plato.&lt;br \&gt;
According to Cooksey (a view developed by Despand 1985, by Chateau 2005, by Ortega y Gasset 1957 and by Bakhtin 1981) this fact makes the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium&lt;/i&gt; a unitary dialogue, where thanks to the philosophy tragedy and comedy are restored to wholeness. &lt;br \&gt;
Personally I think that this kind of interpretation is fundamental to contextualize the philosophical doctrines. On the one hand, to gather the intentions and aims of platonic writing, and on the other, to understand the philosophical meaning emerging from the text. There is not a dichotomy between style and content or an asymmetrical advantage of the content over the style: these two parts work together in order to explore the concept that arises from the text. This awareness is to be found in many of the studies carried out on Plato over recent years. Cooksey's work constitutes a worthy part of this hermeneutic vein. At this point, a most important observation is that, apart from what has been said about the one-on-one dialectical relationships of the trilogy, Cooksey conceives the &#8220;dialectic&#8221; in what I would call a contemporaneous way: the dialectic is not the contrast or the overcoming of a thesis by contradiction (as it was for Socrates and Hegel), but the participants' desire to achieve a mutual agreement on a dialogical composition, which is typical of a &#8216;democratic' and contemporaneous conception. I personally do not agree with the universalization of the &#8216;common research' as an agreement among the participants of the Socratic dialogue, even being one of its most characteristics aspects. This definition underlines a &#8216;democratic' conception of knowledge. I believe to be it an anachronism and a simplification of ancient Greek culture. Unfortunately all too often, I observe in this contemporary reading the limits of a text that is proposed as a reading guide instead of as a theoretical comparison. It is, however, true that this can bring students closer to the Greek world. Yet it should express that this inclination for contemporaneity is just a suggestion, not an addition to what has been written by Plato. &lt;br \&gt;
Nevertheless, from a theoretical point of view an update of the dialogue's form is very interesting., since the 'Socratic dialogue' is applied in several educational and formative contexts as an implementation. Moreover, these topics can't be adequately explained in an introductory book about the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium&lt;/i&gt;. Otherwise, there is a risk that the reader (in particular if inexperienced) would not be able to understand in what way it is indeed present in the platonic work and to what extent it constitutes an evolution from its ancient example.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;2) A positive interpretation of Eryximachus: Cooksey points out an important step forward on the moral relativism of Phaedrus and Pausanias: &#8220;The transition to a moral &quot;physics&quot;, grounded in a relationship with nature, ultimately pointing to a moral metaphysics, grounded in transcendent forms&#8221;. Eryximachus' encomium prepares the audience for the speech of Socrates/Diotima and the transcendental philosophy of Plato. After having emphasized the common points with Empedocles and Hippocrates, Cooksey underlines the resemblance with Plato's theory of the tripartition of the human soul [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb4-3&quot; name=&quot;nh4-3&quot; id=&quot;nh4-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[3] Republic 436a-445e, 545b-580a' &gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] and the conception of health as the harmony between the parts.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;3) Love is neither mortal nor immortal [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb4-4&quot; name=&quot;nh4-4&quot; id=&quot;nh4-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[4] Symposium 203b-209e' &gt;4&lt;/a&gt;]: Cooksey underlines the fact that, from a purely ontological point of view, it is &#8220;hard&#8221; to imagine an intermediate position. However, from a psychological point of view, it looks right. Unfortunately, the author does not go deeply into the subject. Is it not true that the aim of Plato's philosophy is to find the &#8220;in-between&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;metaxy&lt;/i&gt;)? A middle between the sensible and the intelligible? Does not the combined reading of the speech of Socrates/Diotima and Alcibiades underline the necessity of a union between human and divine? Presumably, Cooksey does not take any position on this subject because he regards the idea of Beauty as totally transcendental and ineffable, and this, therefore, leads him to perceive only the division, since he does not understand the intermediary role played by &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Eros&lt;/i&gt; from an ontological point of view.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;4) The &quot;ascent passage&quot; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb4-5&quot; name=&quot;nh4-5&quot; id=&quot;nh4-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[5] Symposium 209e-212a' &gt;5&lt;/a&gt;]: as outlined in the previous paragraph, this passage regards the form of Beauty as not being limited by either the temporal or the spatial dimension, and seems to be also apart from the previous levels. The vision of the Beautiful would render all other measures of Beauty trivial: &quot;Children, works of poetry, inventions, moral and political institutions are merely images or phantoms of virtues, mere approximations in their impure form, contingent on particular things.&quot; (p. 85). It seems to me, however, that Cooksey' interpretation does not account for the idea of the &#8220;big beautiful sea&#8221;&#8212; or at least, that was not its intention. &lt;br \&gt;
The author argues constantly about the secondary bibliography concerning three subjects: the ascent's doctrine regarding Plato's philosophy; the role of Diotima; and the relationship between the discourse of Socrates/Diotima with the five previous discourses. Cooksey [like Chen (1983)] does not interpret &#8220;the ascent&#8221; in terms of abstraction or generalization but as something comparable to the Zen Koans and capable of performing a similar function: the form of Beauty is beyond rational or empirical description. &quot;We can only point at it; we do not have the means of saying what it is. Eros is a kind of orienting disposition.&quot; (p. 87). This marks a key point in the philosophical method proposed by Diotima. What I mean to say is that there is a discontinuity between the procedure and the grasp of Beauty, the vision of Beauty is neither insured nor guaranteed. &lt;br \&gt;
&#8220;This method can only prepare the lover/philosopher, put him in the proper place, the proper frame of mind, but it cannot by itself bridge the final gap.&quot; (p. 88). Cooksey understands it in a &#8220;kantianian&#8221; way, as the limits of reason, and conceives the grasp of Beauty as a mystical experience. The relationship between procedure and grasp is explained according to the words of Wittgenstein: &#8220;kicking away the ladder after we have climbed it.&#8221; We already know that this passage has been read for centuries in two different and opposing ways: as an expression of rationality capable of abstraction and generalization, on the one hand, and as a mystical abandonment of the rationality, on the other. These two interpretations are rooted in some representations of Plato's gnoseology regarding the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;dianoia&lt;/i&gt; and the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;nous. &lt;/i&gt;Cooksey places himself among the supporters of a mystical interpretation and uses a method based on suggestions and assonances quoting and commenting passages of Dante, Shakespeare and George Bernard Shaw.
&lt;br \&gt;
The figure of Diotima is presented as a strong presence that is absent: &quot;Her presence as a name signifies something real about her existence, but at the same time something outside or beyond a material appearance of the others.&quot; (p. 94). According to Cooksey, Diotima's presence is a symbol of the entire process of immortality and the ascent that she describes. I think this is a highly interesting aspect because it frames, within the same characters' selection, a particular philosophical meaning: the philosophy of the ineffable beauty that remains absent in the presence of itself.
&lt;br \&gt;
The author associates the erotic metaphor with the act of reading and interpretation. Each speech is stimulated to give birth to the beauty of knowledge and the ascent up of the ladder of love; and is dramatized by the succession of narrators and narrative frames. Cooksey offers an interpretation that could be called &#8220;maieutic&#8221;. Furthermore, he shows how the narrative structure is represented by the philosophy stated by Socrates/Diotima: &quot;(&amp;hellip;) the nesting of narrative frames also reminds us that we are separated from Diotima's vision, that whatever we know about the beautiful is filtered by a succession of mediators.&quot; (pp. 95-96). It is only possible to grasp a phantom of Beauty, not Beauty itself.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;5) Diotima and Alcibiades: while Diotima emphasizes the remote goals of the erotic, Alcibiades emphasizes its very tangible presence. Nevertheless, the erotic presence stated by Alcibiades underlines something that is placed outside the subjective control: an uncontrollable power. &lt;br \&gt;
I believe that Cooksey interprets love as a separation, even when it takes a corporeal appearance in Alcibiades' discourse. Cooksey &#8211; unlike Nussbaum (1986) &#8211;, argues that the idealized eroticism of Diotima is mapped onto the real eroticism of Alcibiades: his speech is not the &quot;counter example&quot; but the concrete example of Diotima's. According to Cooksey, the purpose of Plato &#8211; pursued by the discourse of Alcibiades &#8211; is to demonstrate that the metaphysical vision suggested by Diotima is to be present in everybody's daily life experience: &quot;The steps in Alcibiades' account of his attempts to seduce Socrates echoes the stages of the erotic mysteries of Diotima, a concrete example of the five stages of love, especially the transitions between the stages.&quot; (p. 118).&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;6) Socratic philosophy: Cooksey places the desire for unattainable Beauty inside the Socratic philosophy as an enquiry. He thinks that Socrates offers a process, not a doctrine. &quot;The erotic guide can facilitate and nurture, but it is the beloved who must experience the sudden revelation that takes the initiate to the fifth level (&amp;hellip;).&quot; (p. 123). Thus, he suggests a general interpretation that underlines the continuity between Socrates and Plato, which is to be found in the same writing, and is intended to encourage readers. He comes to this conclusion after considering the Socratic method as an endless tendency, a desire for an inaccessible wisdom and an absence of knowledge according to the interpretation of the &quot;ascent passage&quot; and that of Heidegger regarding Socrates as a &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonic&lt;/i&gt; thinker.&quot; I not only do not agree, but consider that since it is possible to grasp the Idea, it should be investigated. But this would expose the whole interpretation of Cooksey as based on the separation, and therefore it is not taken into consideration. The subject of separation has been widely debated in the secondary bibliography about Plato. Since this is a review, I cannot argue about it any longer. Nevertheless, I would like to state that as far as I'm concerned, from that specific point in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium &lt;/i&gt;(i.e. the 'ascent passage') the interpretation of the alleged platonic &#8216;dualism' could be called into question.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The author manages very cleverly to present a broad range of areas from ancient Greek philosophy to modern philosophy, but &#8211; probably because of the introductory nature of the text &#8211;; he doesn't go deeply into it. In this text, we find two strong points that deserve a specialist attention: the particular attention paid to the literary aspects of the dialogue &#8211; highlighting the philosophical meaning inherent to it &#8211; and the maieutic aspects that might lead to the understanding of the real aim of Plato's writing.
To conclude, I would say that the text of Cooksey is presented as a passionate and stimulating introduction to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium&lt;/i&gt;. However, caution must be applied, as there is a high risk of misinterpretation for those readers who are not familiarized with platonic texts and the secondary literature. Yet it would be reduced if the text of Cooksey were supported by other studies. On the whole, the text of Cooksey is a refreshing interpretation rather than an introduction. Furthermore, it is packed with interesting suggestions and comparisons about the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium.&lt;/i&gt;
&lt;br \&gt;&lt;br \&gt;
Laura CANDIOTTO&lt;br \&gt;
Ca' Foscari University of Venice (Italy)&lt;br \&gt;
Department of Philosophy&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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		&lt;div class='rss_notes'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh4-1&quot; name=&quot;nb4-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 4-1&quot;&gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] See the &#8220;discussion questions&#8221; proposed at the end of chapter 3, pp. 131-132.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh4-2&quot; name=&quot;nb4-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 4-2&quot;&gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] See paragraph 5.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh4-3&quot; name=&quot;nb4-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 4-3&quot;&gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;436a-445e, 545b-580a&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh4-4&quot; name=&quot;nb4-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 4-4&quot;&gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium &lt;/i&gt; 203b-209e&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh4-5&quot; name=&quot;nb4-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 4-5&quot;&gt;5&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium&lt;/i&gt; 209e-212a&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		
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		<title>1. &#171; Topos &#187; en question dans l'introduction du Sophiste (216a1-217a1)</title>
		<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article115</link>
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		<dc:date>2013-03-24T11:06:17Z</dc:date>
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		<dc:creator>NERCAM, Nathalie</dc:creator>



		<description>Au d&#233;but du Sophiste, Socrate demande au visiteur &#233;l&#233;ate ce qu'ont pens&#233; des genres philosophe, sophiste et politique, &#171; ceux &#187; qui sont de ce lieu-l&#224; &#187;. L'article a pour but d'&#233;clairer cette derni&#232;re expression et en particulier son mot clef &#171; topos &#187;. Il est montr&#233; que les significations de ce terme, dans son contexte, sont multiples et que cette diversit&#233;, loin d'apporter la confusion, permet au contraire et pr&#233;cis&#233;ment d'ouvrir les diverses perspectives du dialogue. &lt;br /&gt;At the beginning of the Sophist, (&amp;hellip;)


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&lt;a href="http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?rubrique13" rel="directory"&gt;12. Plato 12 (2012)&lt;/a&gt;


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 <content:encoded>&lt;div class='rss_chapo'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Au d&#233;but du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, Socrate demande au visiteur &#233;l&#233;ate ce qu'ont pens&#233; des genres philosophe, sophiste et politique, &#171; ceux &#187; qui sont de ce lieu-l&#224; &#187;. L'article a pour but d'&#233;clairer cette derni&#232;re expression et en particulier son mot clef &#171; topos &#187;. Il est montr&#233; que les significations de ce terme, dans son contexte, sont multiples et que cette diversit&#233;, loin d'apporter la confusion, permet au contraire et pr&#233;cis&#233;ment d'ouvrir les diverses perspectives du dialogue.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;At the beginning of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophist&lt;/i&gt;, Socrates asks the Eleatic Visitor how the three kinds Philosopher, Sophist and Statesman, have been understood by &#8220;those who are in this place&#8221;. The purpose of this paper is to enlighten this &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;periphrasis&lt;/i&gt; and specially its key-word &#8220;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;topos&lt;/i&gt;&#8221;. We have showed that, in its context, this word has four main meanings, and that this diversity, far from causing confusion, opens up the dialogue to various perspectives.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_texte'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Les dialogues &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; et &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politique&lt;/i&gt; r&#233;pondent &#224; une question formul&#233;e par Socrate au d&#233;but du premier des deux ouvrages. A cette occasion, le philosophe ath&#233;nien interpelle le visiteur &#233;l&#233;ate qui lui a &#233;t&#233; pr&#233;sent&#233; par le g&#233;om&#232;tre Th&#233;odore, au moyen d'une p&#233;riphrase dans laquelle &#171; topos &#187; est le terme principal : il demande au nouveau venu d'exposer les r&#233;flexions de &#171; ceux qui sont de ce lieu-l&#224; &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-1&quot; name=&quot;nh5-1&quot; id=&quot;nh5-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[1] &#171; O&#7985; &#960;&#949;&#961;&#8054; &#964;&#8056;&#957; &#7952;&#954;&#949;&#8150; &#964;&#972;&#960;&#959;&#957; &#187; (217a1).' &gt;1&lt;/a&gt;]. Di&#232;s, Chambry et Robin consid&#232;rent que Socrate vise ceux qui habitent le &#171; pays &#187; de l'&#233;tranger, &#224; savoir El&#233;e [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-2&quot; name=&quot;nh5-2&quot; id=&quot;nh5-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[2] DIES, 1925 : &#171; A l&amp;#39;&#233;tranger pr&#233;cis&#233;ment, j&amp;#39;aurais plaisir &#224; demander, si ma (...)' &gt;2&lt;/a&gt;]. Il en va tr&#232;s semblablement pour Nestor Cordero [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-3&quot; name=&quot;nh5-3&quot; id=&quot;nh5-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[3] Sa variante est plus lapidaire : &#171; Voil&#224; pourquoi, s&amp;#39;il lui pla&#238;t de me (...)' &gt;3&lt;/a&gt;].&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;L'objectif de cet article est de montrer que la signification du mot &#171; topos &#187; dans le contexte introductif du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; n'est pas univoque, comme pourrait le laisser entendre la relative unanimit&#233; des traductions fran&#231;aises [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-4&quot; name=&quot;nh5-4&quot; id=&quot;nh5-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[4] Le consensus est tout aussi fort et de m&#234;me nature dans les traductions (...)' &gt;4&lt;/a&gt;]. La multiplicit&#233; de ses sens, loin d'&#234;tre un handicap, est ce qui permet de relativiser le discours de l'&#233;tranger.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Pour le d&#233;montrer, on &#233;tudiera l'ironie tr&#232;s particuli&#232;re que Platon accorde &#224; Socrate face &#224; Th&#233;odore. La plupart des commentateurs du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; en prennent acte mais sans d&#233;velopper les probl&#232;mes qu'elle implique [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-5&quot; name=&quot;nh5-5&quot; id=&quot;nh5-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[5] On trouve par contre dans des &#233;tudes plus th&#233;matiques des &#233;l&#233;ments (...)' &gt;5&lt;/a&gt;]. Or elle permet &#224; Platon de jouer sur plusieurs plans de signification et d'ouvrir ainsi l'horizon du probl&#232;me pos&#233;. C'est dans ce contexte que le mot &#171; topos &#187; prend de multiples significations. Notre &#233;tude a pour fin de les examiner apr&#232;s avoir fix&#233;, dans une premi&#232;re partie, le cadre g&#233;n&#233;ral de l'enqu&#234;te.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;1 Construction de la question.&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;La question pos&#233;e en 217a1 conclut un bref dialogue entre Socrate et Th&#233;odore qui pr&#233;sente d'abord les circonstances de la rencontre. Elle est situ&#233;e au lendemain du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te, &lt;/i&gt;au m&#234;me endroit, l&#224; o&#249; enseigne le grand math&#233;maticien (216a1-2). Le g&#233;om&#232;tre d&#233;crit alors tr&#232;s bri&#232;vement le nouveau venu qui est son h&#244;te mais qu'il ne nomme pas. L'anonyme est caract&#233;ris&#233; par trois traits :&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;D'une part, il vient du &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;genos&lt;/i&gt; &#187; d'El&#233;e ce qui signifie d'abord qu'il appartient &#224; la nation des El&#233;ates (216a3).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;D'autre part, il serait &#171; ami des disciples de Parm&#233;nide et de Z&#233;non &#187; (216a3-4) ce qui sous-entend qu'il conna&#238;t bien les positions philosophiques de ces deux penseurs [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-6&quot; name=&quot;nh5-6&quot; id=&quot;nh5-6&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[6] Sur ce point, Nestor Cordero a d&#233;fendu une lecture diff&#233;rente du texte (...)' &gt;6&lt;/a&gt;].&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Enfin le math&#233;maticien d&#233;clare que son h&#244;te est assur&#233;ment tout &#224; fait &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;philosophos&lt;/i&gt; &#187; (216a4). Pour le g&#233;om&#232;tre, cette derni&#232;re qualit&#233; ferait autorit&#233; et semblerait presque suffire &#224; pr&#233;senter l'inconnu.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Si rendez-vous avait &#233;t&#233; pris entre Th&#233;odore et Socrate [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-7&quot; name=&quot;nh5-7&quot; id=&quot;nh5-7&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[7] Socrate conclut le Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te en disant : &#171; mais, pour demain, Th&#233;odore, ici (...)' &gt;7&lt;/a&gt;], la venue de cet &#233;tranger n'&#233;tait pas quant &#224; elle programm&#233;e. Or la veille, l'examen de la pens&#233;e de Parm&#233;nide d'El&#233;e avait &#233;t&#233; laiss&#233;e en suspens [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-8&quot; name=&quot;nh5-8&quot; id=&quot;nh5-8&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[8] Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te 184a1-b2.' &gt;8&lt;/a&gt;]. Cette enqu&#234;te est en cons&#233;quence &#224; l'ordre du jour du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;. L'arriv&#233;e de l'&#233;tranger &#233;l&#233;ate est donc providentielle. Ce nouveau venu est un v&#233;ritable &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;deus ex machina&lt;/i&gt; qui dans la trame continue et programm&#233;e des deux dialogues &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; et &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, semble comme tomber opportun&#233;ment du ciel quand il s'agit d'&#233;tudier Parm&#233;nide.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cette situation fabriqu&#233;e de toutes pi&#232;ces est aussit&#244;t pr&#233;texte &#224; ironie. L'heureux concours de circonstances suscite en effet la r&#233;action &#224; la fois admirative et amus&#233;e de Socrate qui d&#233;clare : &#171; Th&#233;odore, l'&#233;tranger que tu am&#232;nes, ne serait-il pas &#8211; m&#234;me si tu l'ignores &#8211; un dieu, pour adopter le mot d'Hom&#232;re &#187; (216a5-6). En jouant sur l'&#233;tymologie du nom &#171; Th&#233;odore &#187;, litt&#233;ralement &#171; don de dieu &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-9&quot; name=&quot;nh5-9&quot; id=&quot;nh5-9&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[9] Dans le Cratyle, Socrate joue sur les noms en particulier ceux de (...)' &gt;9&lt;/a&gt;], et sous couvert du grand po&#232;te, Socrate souligne le caract&#232;re exceptionnellement opportun de cette visite impromptue. Le ton est ainsi donn&#233; : l'ironie s'exerce d&#232;s le d&#233;part pour susciter la vigilance du lecteur et pour l'amener &#224; participer au dialogue, en questionnant le texte [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-10&quot; name=&quot;nh5-10&quot; id=&quot;nh5-10&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[10] Sur cette interactivit&#233;, ce dialogue entre le texte et le lecteur, voir (...)' &gt;10&lt;/a&gt;]. Les interventions de Socrate sont alors construites &#224; partir du th&#232;me hom&#233;rique du chant XVII de l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Odyss&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; dans lequel le po&#232;te d&#233;clare que les dieux prennent &#171; les traits de lointains &#233;trangers et, sous toutes les formes, s'en vont de ville en ville inspecter les vertus des humains et leurs crimes &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-11&quot; name=&quot;nh5-11&quot; id=&quot;nh5-11&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[11] Odyss&#233;e, XVII, 483-487.' &gt;11&lt;/a&gt;]. Socrate glose d'abord le mythe : &#171; les hommes qui respectent la justice sont accompagn&#233;s par des dieux, mais c'est surtout le dieu des &#233;trangers qui contr&#244;le, chez les hommes, aussi bien les exc&#232;s que la conduite bien r&#233;gl&#233;e&#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-12&quot; name=&quot;nh5-12&quot; id=&quot;nh5-12&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[12] Il m&#234;le ainsi les passages XVII 483-487 et IX 270-271 de l&amp;#39;Odyss&#233;e (o&#249; (...)' &gt;12&lt;/a&gt;] (216b1-3). Le propos d&#233;rive imm&#233;diatement : le dieu qui &#171; contr&#244;le &#187; devient dieu qui &#171; r&#233;fute &#187;, susceptible de critiquer &#171; les faibles arguments &#187; dont Socrate serait &#233;ventuellement coupable. Pour l'occasion, l'Ath&#233;nien s'amuse donc &#224; inventer un nouveau dieu, celui des philosophes, qualifi&#233; d'&#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#233;lenchtique&lt;/i&gt; &#187;, mani&#232;re indirecte de se moquer de lui-m&#234;me, tout en mettant en question les causes de la venue de l'&#233;tranger, les finalit&#233;s de son action et l'autorit&#233; qui semble l'imposer dans le c&#233;nacle de Th&#233;odore.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platon a fait du g&#233;om&#232;tre l'aust&#232;re contre point de l'ironiste. Le math&#233;maticien reste en effet totalement insensible au courtois persiflage et pr&#233;cise tr&#232;s s&#233;rieusement que le visiteur &#233;tranger n'est ni un batailleur, ni un dieu mais bien un philosophe, et &#224; ce titre, &#171; un &#234;tre divin &#187;, car &#171; tous les philosophes le sont &#187; ajoute-t-il (216b9-c1).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cette r&#233;ponse sentencieuse est l'occasion de creuser un peu plus la distance critique qui s&#233;pare les deux protagonistes. Socrate rebondit en effet sans quitter le ton de l'affable ironie (216c2-d4). Il reprend le premier terme de Th&#233;odore &#8211; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;genos&lt;/i&gt; - en l'appliquant au ma&#238;tre mot du g&#233;om&#232;tre &#8211; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;philosophos&lt;/i&gt;. La nation, la famille, la tribu, le &#171; genre philosophe &#187; auquel l'&#233;tranger appartiendrait n'est pas facile &#224; distinguer du genre divin, d&#233;clare-t-il (216c2-4). Pour &#233;tayer cette assertion, il brode &#224; nouveau sur le m&#234;me passage de l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Odyss&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; : comme les dieux, les philosophes &#171; prennent les apparences les plus diverses, en raison de l'absence de r&#233;flexion des autres, et en allant &#171; de ville en ville &#187;, eux qui sont r&#233;ellement et non faussement philosophes, regardent d'en haut la vie de ceux d'en bas &#187; (216c4-5). Le th&#232;me de la &#171; haute surveillance &#187; est ainsi poursuivi sans discontinuit&#233;, les philosophes remplissant toujours des r&#244;les d'observateur et peut-&#234;tre m&#234;me parfois de censeur. Socrate ach&#232;ve le portrait de ces grands hommes en renversant compl&#232;tement le point de vue. D'en bas, les jugements port&#233;s sur ces &#234;tres sup&#233;rieurs sont aussi divers que peuvent l'&#234;tre leurs apparences, puisqu'ils sont consid&#233;r&#233;s parfois comme des politiques, parfois comme des sophistes et parfois m&#234;me comme des fous. Au titre de &#171; surveillant g&#233;n&#233;ral de droit divin &#187;, le philosophe peut en effet facilement &#234;tre assimil&#233; &#224; tous les donneurs de le&#231;ons et &#224; tous les redresseurs de tort que sont parfois &#224; leur fa&#231;on tous les autres personnages. L'autorit&#233; sacr&#233;e et divine dont Th&#233;odore parait &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;a priori&lt;/i&gt; ce providentiel &#233;tranger est ainsi mise en question.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Au del&#224; de l'ironie, Socrate rend en fait probl&#233;matique l'action philosophique elle-m&#234;me. La vari&#233;t&#233; d'apparences et de jugements manifeste en effet une r&#233;alit&#233; plus profonde : l'existence de relations et d'interactions entre les diff&#233;rents genres. Si le philosophe &#171; agit &#187;, observe et juge, publiquement ou non, mais toujours selon ses propres motifs, il &#171; p&#226;tit &#187; aussi, en &#233;tant jug&#233; selon les crit&#232;res des &#171; autres &#187;. Une r&#233;duction maladroite entra&#238;nerait l'opposition radicale entre un simple agir unilat&#233;ral, sans p&#226;tir (comme du haut vers le bas) niant la multiplicit&#233; d'opinions qui s'exprime pourtant (du bas vers le haut). Socrate appr&#233;cierait au contraire l'action dans son double mouvement, d'agir et de p&#226;tir et prendrait en consid&#233;ration la diversit&#233; des jugements. Prise au s&#233;rieux, celle-ci t&#233;moigne d'un enjeu peut-&#234;tre m&#234;me d'un conflit, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;a minima&lt;/i&gt; d'une difficult&#233; quant &#224; la d&#233;finition pr&#233;cise de l'action philosophique, qui m&#233;rite en cons&#233;quence d'&#234;tre soigneusement examin&#233;e.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platon aurait donc pos&#233; en ce commencement du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, les termes d'une &#233;quation probl&#233;matique. D'un c&#244;t&#233;, Th&#233;odore croit sans jamais douter qu'un philosophe est un &#234;tre sup&#233;rieur et admet ainsi &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;de facto&lt;/i&gt; une hi&#233;rarchie de principe qui s'exprimerait dans les faits, sans soulever de difficult&#233;. D'un autre c&#244;t&#233;, Socrate sous couvert d'ironie met la certitude du math&#233;maticien en question et inscrit l'action philosophique parmi bien d'autres types d'action avec lesquelles elle interagit. A l'issue de ce rapide &#233;change, l'&#233;tranger n'est plus &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;a priori&lt;/i&gt; un &#234;tre sup&#233;rieur et divin. Il est devenu la v&#233;ritable inconnue du probl&#232;me soulev&#233; par Socrate, peut-&#234;tre philosophe, peut-&#234;tre politique ou sophiste ou m&#234;me fou.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ainsi on &#233;coutera l'anonyme &#233;l&#233;ate en lui accordant comme nous y convie Th&#233;odore une confiance sans r&#233;serve. Mais comme nous le rappelle Socrate, on r&#233;fl&#233;chira &#224; deux fois avant de prononcer son jugement. Car la question pos&#233;e vaut aussi pour le lecteur. Au fil du dialogue, il &#233;prouvera ses propres qualit&#233;s, peut-&#234;tre de philosophe, de politique, de sophiste ou m&#234;me de maniaque plus ou moins inspir&#233;. Il faut donc soi-m&#234;me se remettre en question. Cette &#233;preuve commence d&#232;s la premi&#232;re &#233;tape introductive qui vient d'&#234;tre &#233;tudi&#233;e. Elle conduit &#224; demander : comment peut-on appr&#233;cier le discours de l'&#233;tranger ? Il va en d&#233;finissant les genres se d&#233;finir lui-m&#234;me. Mais si le lecteur admet les propos tenus sans autre discussion, il demeurera alors enferm&#233; dans le cercle herm&#233;neutique trac&#233; par l'exposant lui-m&#234;me, sans aucune distanciation. Il ne pensera pas mais ne fera qu'opiner. L'introduction du dialogue aurait justement pour vocation d'ouvrir cette boucle et Platon convierait le lecteur &#224; relativiser le discours de l'inconnu en le rapportant &#224; ses prol&#233;gom&#232;nes socratiques. Le probl&#232;me est alors de savoir de quelle fa&#231;on.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socrate pose une premi&#232;re question dans laquelle se trouve le mot &#171; topos &#187;: &#171; J'aimerais entendre l'&#233;tranger nous dire pour qui les tenaient les gens de ce lieu-l&#224; et de quels noms ils les nommaient &#187; (217a1). Platon souligne imm&#233;diatement les difficult&#233;s inh&#233;rentes &#224; cette requ&#234;te, en faisant intervenir deux fois Th&#233;odore. La question est en effet particuli&#232;rement allusive. D'abord l'objet de l'examen n'est indiqu&#233; que par le pronom &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#964;&#945;&#965;&#952;&lt;/i&gt;' qui rappelle globalement tout ce qui fut dit pr&#233;c&#233;demment. Socrate pr&#233;cise donc : il s'agit d'apprendre comment sophiste, politique et philosophe ont &#233;t&#233; consid&#233;r&#233;s et appel&#233;s (217a2-3). Mais le trouble de Th&#233;odore provient d'une seconde difficult&#233; plus implicite : s'il est clair que l'&#233;tranger est celui &#224; qui, en personne, est adress&#233;e la question, il est plus difficile de d&#233;terminer de qui Socrate attend en fait des explications [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-13&quot; name=&quot;nh5-13&quot; id=&quot;nh5-13&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[13] Th&#233;odore ne demande pas &#224; Socrate de qui il attend finalement une (...)' &gt;13&lt;/a&gt;]. Du nouveau venu, il dit en effet vouloir apprendre ce qu'ont pens&#233; et nomm&#233; &#171; les gens de ce lieu-l&#224; &#187;. On peut d'abord penser qu'&#224; d&#233;faut de pouvoir pr&#233;ciser s'il est philosophe, sophiste ou politique, bref ne sachant &#224; qui il a &#224; faire, Socrate caract&#233;rise le nouveau venu gr&#226;ce &#224; son lieu d'origine. Mais cette interpr&#233;tation est la ligne minimale de flottaison du commentaire. Il est en effet facile d'imaginer &#224; la place du mot &#171; topos &#187;, d'autres termes plus directs renvoyant &#224; El&#233;e. Le nom de la cit&#233; italique aurait suffi ou &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;genos&lt;/i&gt; &#187; employ&#233; par Th&#233;odore ou encore toute autre formule du type &#171; chez vous, les El&#233;ates &#187;&amp;hellip; Aucune des hypoth&#232;ses cit&#233;es en exemple n'ayant &#233;t&#233; adopt&#233;e par Platon, il est n&#233;cessaire de demander en quoi l'emploi de &#171; topos &#187; rel&#232;ve d'un choix d&#233;lib&#233;r&#233; et peut-&#234;tre savant. Pourquoi avoir opt&#233; pour une formule fastidieuse et ne pas avoir choisi pour all&#233;ger la phrase et rendre plus compr&#233;hensible la question, d'user d'un terme plus imm&#233;diatement compr&#233;hensible ?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Consid&#233;rons les autres occurrences de ce mot dans des contextes similaires. Socrate l'emploie dans trois prologues introductifs. Dans &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;M&#233;non&lt;/i&gt; (71a1) et dans &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; (271c4) les lieux sont ceux d'Ath&#232;nes, dans &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt; (230b4 et c1) le lieu est celui de la source au bord de l'Ilissos, longuement d&#233;crite par le philosophe. A chaque fois, &#171; topos &#187; constitue un des th&#232;mes principaux, si ce n'est le th&#232;me majeur, de ces introductions [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-14&quot; name=&quot;nh5-14&quot; id=&quot;nh5-14&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[14] Le prologue est tr&#232;s bref dans le cas du M&#233;non. Socrate prend pr&#233;texte (...)' &gt;14&lt;/a&gt;]. Le contexte rapproch&#233;, c'est-&#224;-dire le m&#234;me paragraphe, permet sans h&#233;siter de d&#233;finir son sens g&#233;n&#233;ral toujours spatial.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sur ce principe, l'occurrence de l'introduction du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; ne ferait sens que resitu&#233;e dans l'ensemble du propos dans lequel elle appara&#238;t (216c2-217a1). Or dans tout le paragraphe qui conduit finalement &#224; la question, le philosophe ath&#233;nien n'&#233;voque jamais ni la cit&#233; &#233;l&#233;ate, ni le souvenir de Parm&#233;nide ou de Z&#233;non. Son discours est g&#233;n&#233;raliste et vise tous les philosophes, d'o&#249; qu'ils viennent. Ceux-ci sont d'ailleurs d&#233;crits comme des nomades, d'une certaine fa&#231;on apatrides, puisqu'ils vont &#171; de ville en ville &#187;. Leur port d'attache est ind&#233;termin&#233;. &#171; Topos &#187; dans la question qui cl&#244;t ce d&#233;veloppement devrait donc &#234;tre entendu dans un sens g&#233;n&#233;ral. Mais voil&#224; qui pose probl&#232;me.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;L'expression dans laquelle le mot est employ&#233;, compos&#233;e du pronom &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#959;&#7985;&lt;/i&gt; et de la pr&#233;position &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#960;&#949;&#961;&#8054;&lt;/i&gt; + accusatif, sous-entend le verbe &#171; &#234;tre &#187; et signifie litt&#233;ralement &#171; ceux qui sont du c&#244;t&#233; de&#8230;&#187;. Platon aurait renforc&#233; la valeur locative de &#171; topos &#187; en lui adjoignant un adverbe de m&#234;me sens, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#7952;&#954;&#949;&#8150;&lt;/i&gt; qui signifie &#171; l&#224;, l&#224;-bas &#187;. Socrate parlerait donc de &#171; ceux qui sont du c&#244;t&#233; de ce lieu l&#224;-bas &#187; mais sans pour autant renvoyer &#224; une adresse g&#233;ographique pr&#233;cise. &#171; Topos &#187; d&#233;signerait alors une localisation qui n'en est pas une, une situation &#171; g&#233;n&#233;rale &#187;. L'interpr&#233;tation est probl&#233;matique, ce qu'a judicieusement remarqu&#233; Seth Benardete [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-15&quot; name=&quot;nh5-15&quot; id=&quot;nh5-15&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[15] Il &#233;crit en effet : &#171; Socrates could not have phrased his question more (...)' &gt;15&lt;/a&gt;]. Une alternative est rendue possible par l'existence d'une construction grammaticale dont on trouve un mod&#232;le par exemple dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#233;don&lt;/i&gt; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-16&quot; name=&quot;nh5-16&quot; id=&quot;nh5-16&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[16] En Ph&#233;don 69c8, Socrate parle de &#171; ceux qui s&amp;#39;occupent des initiations &#187;. (...)' &gt;16&lt;/a&gt;]. Dans ce cas, la m&#234;me formule &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#959;&#7985; &#960;&#949;&#961;&#8054; &lt;/i&gt;+ accusatif peut &#234;tre traduite par : &#171; ceux qui s'occupent de &#8230; &#187;. Socrate demanderait alors &#224; l'&#233;tranger ce qu'ont pens&#233; des genres en question &#171; ceux qui s'occupent de ce lieu l&#224; &#187;. Mais &#171; topos &#187; renvoie alors &#224; une r&#233;alit&#233; qu'il est bien difficile de d&#233;finir pr&#233;cis&#233;ment. L'interpr&#233;tation est &#224; nouveau apor&#233;tique. Dans les deux hypoth&#232;ses ex&#233;g&#233;tiques, le sens du mot reste donc au premier abord assez obscur.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Mais il appara&#238;t par contre clairement que rapporter les propos de l'&#233;tranger &#224; leur introduction socratique, c'est consid&#233;rer l'inconnu &#233;l&#233;ate comme le porte-parole de &#171; ceux qui sont ou/et qui s'occupent de ce lieu l&#224; &#187;. Socrate &#171; situe &#187; ainsi l'&#233;tranger, en le renvoyant tr&#232;s litt&#233;ralement &#224; un &#171; lieu &#187;. &#171; Topos &#187; est donc ce par quoi le cercle herm&#233;neutique peut &#234;tre ouvert, la clef des champs socratique du dialogue. Il est alors tout &#224; fait logique que ce mot soit comme on vient de le constater une &#233;nigme. Car si Platon a rendu difficile sa compr&#233;hension imm&#233;diate, c'est justement pour que le lecteur tr&#233;buche et marque le pas : il doit s'arr&#234;ter sur &#171; topos &#187; car c'est le mot clef de la question initiale, celui qui d&#233;signe la distance critique qui permettra finalement d'appr&#233;cier le discours de l'inconnu. Selon le &#171; lieu &#187;, la r&#233;ponse au probl&#232;me pos&#233; peut varier et selon la fa&#231;on dont l'ex&#233;g&#232;te interpr&#232;te ce &#171; lieu &#187;, l'appr&#233;ciation de cette r&#233;ponse peut varier elle aussi. Notre enqu&#234;te doit donc maintenant consid&#233;rer cette ouverture du dialogue sur de multiples possibles. A quel &#171; topos &#187; peut-on rapporter les propos de l'&#233;tranger et pour engager quel type de r&#233;flexion ?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;2 Les significations possibles du mot &#171; topos &#187;.&lt;/h3&gt;
&lt;h4 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#171; Ce lieu-l&#224; &#187; : &#233;cole &#233;l&#233;atique.&lt;/h4&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Une premi&#232;re interpr&#233;tation est &#233;tay&#233;e par les remarques de Nestor Cordero dans son article &#171; L'invention de l'&#233;cole &#233;l&#233;atique, Platon &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; 242d &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-17&quot; name=&quot;nh5-17&quot; id=&quot;nh5-17&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[17] CORDERO, 1991, p : 91-124.' &gt;17&lt;/a&gt;]. L'&#233;tranger utilise en effet une expression &#233;trange qui fait &#233;cho aux propos liminaires de Th&#233;odore : &#171; Issue de chez nous, la gent &#233;l&#233;atique, qui commen&#231;a par X&#233;nophane et m&#234;me avant, ne voit qu'unit&#233; dans ce qu'on nomme le tout et poursuit en ce sens l'expos&#233; de ses mythes &#187; (242d5-7). La formule &#171; chez nous &#187; d&#233;signerait plut&#244;t El&#233;e en tant qu'espace g&#233;opolitique. Mais la mention de X&#233;nophane de Colophon au titre d'anc&#234;tre est un anachronisme g&#233;ographique flagrant dont Nestor Cordero a tir&#233; l'enseignement. &#171; L'ethos &#233;l&#233;atique s'est d&#233;velopp&#233; &#224; partir d'El&#233;e mais toute r&#233;f&#233;rence exclusivement localiste qui ferait du mouvement une philosophie de terroir, de &#171; chez nous, les El&#233;ates &#187; est &#224; exclure &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-18&quot; name=&quot;nh5-18&quot; id=&quot;nh5-18&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[18] CORDERO, 1991, p : 98.' &gt;18&lt;/a&gt;] d&#233;clare-t-il. Sur cette base, il distingue l'adjectif &#171; &#233;l&#233;ate &#187; : de la cit&#233; d'El&#233;e et l'adjectif &#171; &#233;l&#233;atique &#187; : du cercle intellectuel qui d&#233;clare l'unit&#233; de l'&#234;tre et qui revendique notamment Parm&#233;nide pour pr&#233;curseur. Nestor Cordero discute ensuite la r&#233;alit&#233; historique de ce cercle. Nous reviendrons plus tard sur ce dernier point. Admettons pour l'instant l'existence de cette hypoth&#233;tique &#171; &#233;cole &#187; &#224; laquelle Platon voudrait nous faire croire. En ce cas, le mot &#171; topos &#187; dans l'introduction du dialogue pourrait y renvoyer. &#171; Ce lieu-l&#224; &#187; ne d&#233;signerait plus le lieu de naissance de l'inconnu, tout en restant cependant un lieu d'origine, la source de son savoir, cette &#171; &#233;cole &#233;l&#233;atique &#187; qui d&#233;fend en particulier des positions &#171; monistes &#187;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;L'ironie des propos introductifs de Socrate autorise pleinement cette interpr&#233;tation car elle peut avoir pour cible Parm&#233;nide, au titre de &#171; Ma&#238;tre de v&#233;rit&#233; &#187;, titre dont Marcel Detienne a montr&#233; qu'il pouvait &#234;tre accord&#233; au penseur d'El&#233;e [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-19&quot; name=&quot;nh5-19&quot; id=&quot;nh5-19&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[19] Marcel Detienne a mis en &#233;vidence les parall&#232;les existant entre (...)' &gt;19&lt;/a&gt;]. Dans le dialogue qui porte son nom, il est d&#233;peint comme un philosophe redoutable qui observe, r&#233;fute et expose. Platon semble ainsi avoir tir&#233; les cons&#233;quences derni&#232;res dans l'ordre de l'action de l'&#339;uvre de Parm&#233;nide, qui en &#233;crivant le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; a rendu publique la parole de la D&#233;esse, et d&#233;livr&#233; ainsi l'enseignement divin, en ouvrant une voie p&#233;dagogique. Le &#171; Ma&#238;tre de V&#233;rit&#233; &#187; du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; est ainsi devenu dans le dialogue platonicien une figure plus prosa&#239;que, proche de celle du &#171; ma&#238;tre d'&#233;cole &#187;. Socrate croiserait dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, les trois caract&#232;res qui selon Th&#233;odore d&#233;finissent l'&#233;tranger, pour mettre ironiquement en question le &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;genos&lt;/i&gt; &#187;, le genre, &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;philosophos&lt;/i&gt; &#187;, philosophe, &#224; la mani&#232;re tout &#224; la fois &#233;pique et p&#233;dagogique de Parm&#233;nide, &#171; le Ma&#238;tre &#187;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;L'ironie de Socrate dans cette introduction s'exercerait alors pour fl&#233;trir les deux exc&#232;s potentiels de ceux qui suivraient cet exemple, en le rigidifiant : en amont, l'abus d'autorit&#233; et en aval, l'exc&#232;s de z&#232;le. Dans le premier cas, le recours &#224; la d&#233;esse permettrait d'asseoir un pouvoir exorbitant comme de droit divin qui rendrait confuse la distinction des genres, en particulier entre philosophe et politique. Dans le second cas, les principes du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; en &#233;tant tenus pour acquis comme des lois logiques absolues seraient appliqu&#233;s syst&#233;matiquement et m&#233;caniquement. Le philosophe ainsi arm&#233; aurait alors pour vocation de corriger les mortels &#224; deux t&#234;tes comme peuvent le faire parfois et par ailleurs le politique et le sophiste. La confusion des genres serait &#224; nouveau possible. Dans ces deux cas extr&#234;mes, le discours n'a pour fin que l'autol&#233;gitimation, justifiant une pr&#233;&#233;minence acquise par l'entremise divine ou revendiqu&#233;e par l'autorit&#233; de l'&#233;cole.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#171; Topos &#187; qui ne peut &#234;tre entendu qu'en fonction de son contexte rapproch&#233;, doit donc &#234;tre rapport&#233; &#224; ces deux &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;extrema&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;En amont, c'est la d&#233;esse qui commande. L'&#233;tranger appartiendrait alors &#224; cette &#171; &#233;cole &#233;l&#233;atique &#187; fond&#233;e sur l'autorit&#233; de la parole divine et qui n'a pas, en cons&#233;quence, d'adresse pr&#233;cise. L'expression &#171; ce lieu-l&#224; &#187; renverrait alors &#224; l'espace relationnel tiss&#233; par les pros&#233;lytes de la pens&#233;e de Parm&#233;nide et comprenant tous ceux qui revendiquent o&#249; qu'ils se trouvent cette m&#234;me philosophie. C'est un cercle, une sph&#232;re d'influence et de relations aux contours g&#233;ographiques assez flous.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;En aval, les disciples de Parm&#233;nide et de Z&#233;non auraient propag&#233; dans la continuit&#233; et peut-&#234;tre dans la contestation, un certain enseignement, issu en particulier des r&#233;flexions des deux premiers penseurs d'El&#233;e. &#171; Le lieu &#233;l&#233;atique &#187; n'est plus alors inconsistant mais d&#233;signe tr&#232;s concr&#232;tement une institution, peut-&#234;tre &#224; El&#233;e, o&#249; l'on s'exerce au m&#233;tier de philosophe, un centre d'apprentissage semblable, par exemple au lieu dans lequel professe Th&#233;odore &#224; Ath&#232;nes.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dans cette hypoth&#232;se ex&#233;g&#233;tique &#224; double entr&#233;e, Socrate demanderait donc ce qu'ont pens&#233; du philosophe, du sophiste, du politique et du fou les gens de &#171; ce lieu-l&#224; &#187; c'est-&#224;-dire de cette &#171; &#233;cole &#233;l&#233;atique &#187;, peut-&#234;tre lieu institutionnel consacr&#233;, peut-&#234;tre mouvement de pens&#233;e libre de toute localisation. C'est dans tous les cas, le lieu o&#249; fleurirait le &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;genos&lt;/i&gt; &#187; &#233;l&#233;atique : le &#171; genre philosophe d'El&#233;e &#187;. Platon convierait alors le lecteur &#224; rapporter &#224; ce &#171; topos &#187; les discours du visiteur &#233;tranger. L'action p&#233;dagogique de celui-ci serait alors situ&#233;e entre deux bornes : d'un c&#244;t&#233; le &#171; Ma&#238;tre de V&#233;rit&#233; &#187;, philosophe divin de type Parm&#233;nide, d'un autre c&#244;t&#233;, le &#171; ma&#238;tre d'&#233;cole &#187;, philosophe technicien, appliquant des r&#232;gles et des m&#233;thodes pr&#233;cis&#233;ment &#233;tablies. Le lecteur relativiserait les propos tenus en comparant l'action p&#233;dagogique de l'&#233;tranger &#224; celle de Parm&#233;nide dans le dialogue qui porte son nom ou &#224; celle de Socrate dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h4 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#171; Ce lieu-l&#224; &#187; : classe rh&#233;torique.&lt;/h4&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Consid&#233;rons maintenant une seconde hypoth&#232;se ex&#233;g&#233;tique. Le dialogue &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; se d&#233;roule au lendemain du proc&#232;s intent&#233; par M&#233;l&#233;tos contre le philosophe ath&#233;nien [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-20&quot; name=&quot;nh5-20&quot; id=&quot;nh5-20&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[20] Socrate conclut le dialogue Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te par ces mots : &#171; Pour l&amp;#39;instant donc, (...)' &gt;20&lt;/a&gt;]. Socrate est donc d&#233;j&#224; politiquement condamn&#233; quand il rencontre l'&#233;tranger d'El&#233;e. Ainsi la mise en sc&#232;ne platonicienne confronte, ironie du sort, d'une part un &#171; philosophe &#187; honor&#233; par le g&#233;om&#232;tre Th&#233;odore et d'autre part un &#171; philosophe &#187; que la cit&#233; vient tout juste d'accabler pour men&#233;es subversives.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le terme &#171; sophiste &#187; est alors directement au c&#339;ur du probl&#232;me. Il s'appliqua pendant longtemps &#224; nommer tous les &#171;sages &#187;, tous ceux qui exer&#231;aient un art. Sp&#233;cifi&#233; au cours du V&#176; si&#232;cle pour d&#233;signer des intellectuels d'un nouveau genre, sp&#233;cialistes de la parole et du logos, ce mot a rapidement perdu son prestige, en prenant des connotations p&#233;joratives [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-21&quot; name=&quot;nh5-21&quot; id=&quot;nh5-21&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[21] En t&#233;moignent les &#233;crits d&amp;#39;Alcidamas et d&amp;#39;Isocrate. Sur l&amp;#39;histoire du mot (...)' &gt;21&lt;/a&gt;]. Ce nouveau contexte est celui du dialogue. Face &#224; un &#171; vrai philosophe &#187;, qui, gratifi&#233; par l'&#233;loge, para&#238;t tel un &#234;tre divin, h&#233;ros positif du g&#233;om&#232;tre Th&#233;odore, Platon campe un Socrate, p&#233;nalis&#233; par le bl&#226;me public et qui prend sciemment l'apparence du sophiste en faisant entendre en permanence une ironie lourde de sous-entendus [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-22&quot; name=&quot;nh5-22&quot; id=&quot;nh5-22&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[22] Par cette ironie &#224; double entr&#233;e, Socrate est tout &#224; la fois un (...)' &gt;22&lt;/a&gt;]. Elle n'&#233;pargne personne et vise aussi Socrate lui-m&#234;me, &#171; r&#233;futateur &#187; selon ses propres termes et objet des appr&#233;ciations les plus diverses et contradictoires. Dans son cas, l'ironie par hyperbole est doubl&#233;e par l'antith&#232;se. Car Socrate qui n'a jamais fait que le tour d'Ath&#232;nes est en effet aux antipodes de ce penseur itin&#233;rant qui va &#171; de ville en ville &#187;. De fa&#231;on g&#233;n&#233;rale, son action est &#233;trang&#232;re &#224; la grande Geste h&#233;ro&#239;que en philosophie : c'est un antih&#233;ros qui accepte en particulier de p&#226;tir de son &#171; non savoir &#187; au sein de la communaut&#233; des hommes &#224; laquelle il prend part. Vis &#224; vis du tr&#232;s s&#233;rieux et tr&#232;s pontifiant Th&#233;odore, l'antih&#233;ros Socrate se joue donc de tous et de lui-m&#234;me.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cette &#233;trange situation s'imposait pour que le d&#233;bat qui s'annonce soit effectivement et r&#233;ellement ouvert, sans pr&#233;jug&#233;. Car celui qui &#171; est &#187; sophiste c'est-&#224;-dire qui p&#226;tit d'un jugement n&#233;gatif, est le seul qui puisse se demander vraiment (et donc demander &#224; d'&#171; autres &#187;) ce que peut bien &#234;tre ce titre qui l'accable, et en quoi il est peut-&#234;tre utile de savoir le porter. Il en va tout autrement pour le nom de &#171; philosophe &#187; qui honore et valorise, comme le r&#233;p&#232;te assez Th&#233;odore. Pour celui qui &#171; est &#187; philosophe c'est-&#224;-dire qui p&#226;tit d'un jugement positif, la question de la d&#233;finition des genres n'a aucune n&#233;cessit&#233;. Si Platon fait de Socrate un sophiste c'est parce qu'il fallait endosser cet habit pour mettre r&#233;ellement en question tous les titres qui ne sont d'abord que des jugements prestigieux ou inf&#226;mants mais toujours discutables [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-23&quot; name=&quot;nh5-23&quot; id=&quot;nh5-23&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[23] Comme le note pertinemment Francis Wolff : &#171; le Sophiste, c&amp;#39;est toujours (...)' &gt;23&lt;/a&gt;]. Le grand probl&#232;me de l'action philosophique qui met en jeu la d&#233;finition des genres ne pouvait &#234;tre pos&#233; que par celui qui en p&#226;tit vraiment, celui que la question an&#233;antit, celui qui est en quelque fa&#231;on &#171; sophiste &#187;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;En cons&#233;quence des points pr&#233;c&#233;dents, l'expression probl&#233;matique &#171; ceux qui sont et/ou s'occupent de ce lieu-l&#224; &#187; pourrait avoir une connotation &#171; sophistique &#187;. Sur ce point, Nestor Cordero apporte &#224; nouveau des &#233;l&#233;ments d'analyse d&#233;cisifs. Dans l'article d&#233;j&#224; cit&#233;, il conteste la r&#233;alit&#233; historique de cet &#171; ethnos &#233;l&#233;atique &#187; dont parle le visiteur &#233;l&#233;ate au cours de son expos&#233;. Ce cercle philosophique ne serait, &#233;crit Nestor Cordero, qu'une &#171; g&#233;n&#233;ralisation didactique, utile, profitable &#187; mais sans r&#233;alit&#233; historique, un simple &#171; clich&#233; &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-24&quot; name=&quot;nh5-24&quot; id=&quot;nh5-24&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[24] D&amp;#39;une part parce que le &#171; monisme &#187; n&amp;#39;appara&#238;t qu&amp;#39;avec Melissos et d&amp;#39;autre (...)' &gt;24&lt;/a&gt;]. Il aurait &#233;t&#233; &#233;tabli &#224; partir d'un classement d'origine sophistique comme Jaap Mansfeld l'a par ailleurs montr&#233; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-25&quot; name=&quot;nh5-25&quot; id=&quot;nh5-25&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[25] MANSFELD, 1990, p :22-43.' &gt;25&lt;/a&gt;]. Sur cet exemple, l'&#233;tranger &#171; range &#187; en quelque sorte tous les philosophes &#171; monistes &#187; &#224; &#171; El&#233;e &#187;. Ce lieu n'est plus alors ni un espace g&#233;ographique pr&#233;cis, ni l'adresse d'une &#233;ventuelle &#233;cole, ni m&#234;me le foyer d'un hypoth&#233;tique mouvement de pens&#233;e. C'est un simple titre permettant d'ouvrir l'un des chapitres d'une histoire recompos&#233;e de la philosophie. Sur le mod&#232;le sophistique, l'&#233;tranger aurait donc utilis&#233; le &#171; lieu &#187;, en l'occurrence El&#233;e, comme un outil rh&#233;torique permettant de m&#233;moriser et de classer tous les penseurs qui d&#233;veloppent un m&#234;me motif philosophique, en l'occurrence le &#171; monisme &#187;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dans la question introductive du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, l'expression &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#7952;&#954;&#949;&#8150; &#964;&#972;&#960;&#959;&#957;&lt;/i&gt; pourrait avoir ce sens purement formel. &#171; Topos &#187; signifierait alors &#171; la classe &#187; dans laquelle sont rang&#233;s tous ceux qui s'occupent du sujet philosophique particulier &#233;voqu&#233; par Socrate, &#171; l&#224; &#187;, peu avant dans son discours. Il s'agirait en l'occurrence de la question : comment consid&#233;rer et nommer les genres philosophe, politique, sophiste et peut-&#234;tre m&#234;me fou. Socrate viserait les sp&#233;cialistes de ce probl&#232;me. Or une remarque de Th&#233;odore rend possible cette interpr&#233;tation. Il d&#233;clare que l'&#233;tranger affirme avoir &#171; abondamment entendu parler de cette question &lt;celle de Socrate&gt; et n'en avoir rien oubli&#233; &#187; (217b4-8). La d&#233;finition des genres serait donc effectivement un sujet trait&#233; par ceux dont le visiteur &#233;l&#233;ate a re&#231;u un enseignement. La formule &#171; ce lieu-l&#224; &#187; pourrait alors renvoyer &#224; la &#171; classe &#187; dans laquelle sont rang&#233;s tous ceux quels qu'ils soient, philosophes ou sophistes, d'El&#233;e ou d'ailleurs, qui ont propos&#233; de d&#233;finir les genres pr&#233;cis&#233;ment mis en cause [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-26&quot; name=&quot;nh5-26&quot; id=&quot;nh5-26&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[26] Francis Wolff rappelle que savoir si sophiste, politique et philosophe (...)' &gt;26&lt;/a&gt;].&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ainsi au commencement du dialogue, Platon donne &#224; Socrate le r&#244;le du sophiste. C'est en effet de ce dernier, dont le nom est devenu inf&#226;mant, que proc&#232;de la mise en question des genres et des titres et c'est donc comme un sophiste que Socrate interpelle assez obscur&#233;ment le visiteur &#233;tranger. En disant &#171; topos &#187;, il reprend &#224; son compte les proc&#233;d&#233;s classificatoires des rh&#233;teurs que l'&#233;tranger lui-m&#234;me r&#233;emploie au cours de son expos&#233;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Par ce moyen, Platon convie le lecteur &#224; rapporter les propos du visiteur anonyme &#224; leur &#171; lieu rh&#233;torique &#187; c'est-&#224;-dire &#224; l'ensemble des discours tenus sur le m&#234;me sujet, pour appr&#233;cier comment l'&#233;tranger d'El&#233;e prend part au combat id&#233;ologique qui affrontent les multiples conceptions concernant la d&#233;finition des genres, pour mesurer le formalisme de ses propos, plus ou moins d&#233;gag&#233;s des st&#233;r&#233;otypes et des proc&#233;d&#233;s sophistiques, et pour d&#233;terminer finalement en quoi la dynamique intellectuelle de cet anonyme cl&#244;t compl&#232;tement ou partiellement la question pos&#233;e. &lt;br /&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h4 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#171; Ce lieu-l&#224; &#187; : niveau d'intelligibilit&#233;.&lt;/h4&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Il convient finalement de consid&#233;rer le mot &#171; topos &#187; en fonction du probl&#232;me de fond pos&#233; par Platon, au del&#224; du jeu de masques qui marie le h&#233;ros en philosophie et l'antih&#233;ros qui sait &#234;tre sophiste. Rappelons qu'est mise en question l'action philosophique, le &#171; faire &#187; mais aussi les apparences, ainsi que la valeur, positive ou n&#233;gative, qui peut &#234;tre accord&#233;e &#224; ce &#171; faire &#187; et &#224; ce para&#238;tre. L'expression &#171; ce lieu-l&#224;&#187; n'aurait de signification qu'en &#233;tant rapport&#233; &#224; ce probl&#232;me. On demanderait alors comment le Socrate des dialogues a li&#233; &#171; action philosophique &#187; et &#171; topos &#187;. Cette vaste question qui m&#233;riterait une &#233;tude approfondie peut &#234;tre r&#233;duite aux seules n&#233;cessit&#233;s de ce commentaire, en examinant si ces liens existent de mani&#232;re manifeste, et en les caract&#233;risant globalement. L'examen est alors beaucoup plus rapide car on trouve dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt;, la r&#233;ponse pr&#233;cise &#224; cette derni&#232;re question. En effet lorsque Socrate examine la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mania&lt;/i&gt; dans le mythe de l'attelage ail&#233; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-27&quot; name=&quot;nh5-27&quot; id=&quot;nh5-27&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[27] Ph&#232;dre, 243e8-256e2.' &gt;27&lt;/a&gt;], il ouvre en quelque sorte une enqu&#234;te sur la relative rationalit&#233; des &#171; actions &#187;, entendues dans le sens g&#233;n&#233;ral de &#171; conduites &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-28&quot; name=&quot;nh5-28&quot; id=&quot;nh5-28&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[28] Dans le Sophiste, l&amp;#39;allusion &#224; la mania et la r&#233;f&#233;rence au mythe via (...)' &gt;28&lt;/a&gt;].&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Il pr&#233;sente de fa&#231;on ordonn&#233;e onze types d'&#226;me qui correspondent chacune &#224; une certaine activit&#233; dans la cit&#233; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-29&quot; name=&quot;nh5-29&quot; id=&quot;nh5-29&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[29] Ph&#232;dre 248c2-e4. Premier rang : l&amp;#39;ami du savoir (philosophe), de la (...)' &gt;29&lt;/a&gt;]. Originairement, toutes ont suivi en cort&#232;ge les dieux. Poss&#233;d&#233;es par le divin, soumises &#224; cette bonne &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mania&lt;/i&gt;, elles ont &#233;t&#233; guid&#233;es en direction de la r&#233;alit&#233; et de l'intelligibilit&#233; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-30&quot; name=&quot;nh5-30&quot; id=&quot;nh5-30&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[30] Ph&#232;dre, 248a1, 248c3, 245b1-2, 246d6-247e8.' &gt;30&lt;/a&gt;]. Elles se sont toutes dirig&#233;es vers un lieu, un &#171; topos &#187;, dont Socrate chante les louanges. Il est litt&#233;ralement exorbitant, &#171; au dessus du ciel &#187;, hors tout. Les r&#233;alit&#233;s intelligibles et la v&#233;rit&#233; y prennent place. C'est pourquoi la dynamique originelle des &#226;mes quelles qu'elles soient, est toujours orient&#233;e vers ce lieu o&#249; elles trouvent ce dont elles ont besoin, ce qui comble leur d&#233;sir [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-31&quot; name=&quot;nh5-31&quot; id=&quot;nh5-31&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[31] Ph&#232;dre, 247c3-e7, 248b6-c1.' &gt;31&lt;/a&gt;]. Mais ces &#226;mes en cohorte ont manqu&#233; l'objet de leurs &#233;lans, les unes un peu, les autres beaucoup. Selon la force de leur dynamique, elles ont atteint plus ou moins compl&#232;tement ce lieu exorbitant et ont eu sur le r&#233;el une vue plus ou moins tronqu&#233;e [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-32&quot; name=&quot;nh5-32&quot; id=&quot;nh5-32&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[32] Ph&#232;dre,247e8-248c2, 248a1-b6.' &gt;32&lt;/a&gt;]. On peut alors les diff&#233;rencier en divers types qui correspondent pr&#233;cis&#233;ment aux onze activit&#233;s.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tout &#234;tre humain se souvient m&#234;me confus&#233;ment de la dynamique que son &#226;me a r&#233;alis&#233; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-33&quot; name=&quot;nh5-33&quot; id=&quot;nh5-33&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[33] Ph&#232;dre, 249e5-250b1.' &gt;33&lt;/a&gt;]. Il cherche &#224; satisfaire le grand d&#233;sir essentiel d'accomplissement et d'intelligence et s'oriente, qu'il le sache ou non, en direction d'un lieu &#233;quivalent &#224; ce lieu originel de r&#233;alit&#233; et de v&#233;rit&#233;. Mais les actions, toutes semblablement orient&#233;es, varient en onze types. Chacun d'entre eux est caract&#233;ris&#233; par un certain degr&#233; et une certaine forme de d&#233;sir correspondant &#224; une relative intelligibilit&#233; et une relative intelligence permettant une repr&#233;sentation plus ou moins compl&#232;te de la r&#233;alit&#233; et du lieu vis&#233;s.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ces principes que leur contexte mythographique, dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt;, pourraient p&#233;naliser, sont tr&#232;s s&#233;rieusement d&#233;clin&#233;s par Socrate en particulier dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, dialogue qui est attach&#233; directement et contextuellement &#224; l'introduction du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-34&quot; name=&quot;nh5-34&quot; id=&quot;nh5-34&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[34] Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te entre 176a4 et 177a8.' &gt;34&lt;/a&gt;]. Socrate y d&#233;clare en effet , que le philosophe dont la pens&#233;e visite tout l'univers cherche &#224; s'&#233;vader d'ici vers un &#171; lieu pur de tout mal &#187;, en se rendant semblable &#224; dieu, en devenant juste [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-35&quot; name=&quot;nh5-35&quot; id=&quot;nh5-35&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[35] Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te,173e1-174a1, 176a7-b3.' &gt;35&lt;/a&gt;]. Toutes les donn&#233;es sont concordantes avec le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt; : la dynamique est clairement orient&#233;e vers la r&#233;alit&#233;, accomplie par le moyen d'une esp&#232;ce de possession divine et consacr&#233;e par un &#171; topos &#187; qui rel&#232;verait d'une certaine fa&#231;on de l'intelligible. L'&#226;me du philosophe aurait su garder le souvenir du &#171; lieu au dessus du ciel &#187;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;A l'oppos&#233;, une conduite tortueuse pousse toujours le rh&#233;teur au mensonge et &#224; l'injustice. Il va, sans dieu, au tribunal ou &#224; la salle du conseil, toujours vers des espaces &#233;troits et artificiels. Sa dynamique vicieuse tourne en rond dans la cit&#233;, dans &#171; ce lieu d'ici &#187; o&#249; s&#233;vissent les maux [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-36&quot; name=&quot;nh5-36&quot; id=&quot;nh5-36&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[36] Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te, 172e-173b, 176a4-7.' &gt;36&lt;/a&gt;]. L'extraordinaire &#171; lieu au dessus du ciel &#187; a &#233;t&#233; si peu entraper&#231;u et si vite oubli&#233; que toute discussion portant sur la r&#233;alit&#233; donne le vertige &#224; ce triste personnage et que de lieu il ne conna&#238;t que les cabinets d'injustice.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dans les deux cas, un certain &#171; topos &#187; caract&#233;rise une certaine conduite. Le principe du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt; qui veut qu'&#224; chaque type d'&#226;me corresponde un lieu selon sa &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mania&lt;/i&gt;, est ainsi appliqu&#233;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Du mythe de l'attelage, on peut donc retenir que pour Socrate, l'action est toujours orient&#233;e vers le &#171; topos &#187; de r&#233;alit&#233; et d'intelligibilit&#233;, car tout humain veut s'accomplir en tant que tel, en tant qu'&#234;tre intelligent et intelligible. Mais la repr&#233;sentation de ce lieu exorbitant varie selon le degr&#233; d'intelligibilit&#233; propre au type d'action entreprise c'est-&#224;-dire au type d'&#226;me.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dans l'introduction du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, l'occasion n'est pas &#224; un long d&#233;veloppement sur la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mania&lt;/i&gt;, ni &#224; la pr&#233;sentation de l'ordonnancement des actions, comme c'est le cas dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt;. L'ouverture du dialogue impose au contraire que toutes ces donn&#233;es soient &#233;vacu&#233;es pour que le visiteur &#233;tranger puisse prendre librement la parole &#224; leur propos. Ainsi &#171; philosophe &#187;, &#171; politique &#187;, &#171; sophiste &#187; et &#171; maniaque &#187; sont pos&#233;s en parall&#232;le, comme &#224; &#233;galit&#233; et vides de contenu. Qu'en est-il pour le mot &#171; topos &#187; employ&#233; dans la question qui cl&#244;t cette pr&#233;sentation ?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Il pourrait renvoyer, comme le sugg&#233;rait Seth Benardete, &#224; ce &#171; haut &#187; lieu de justice qui est celui du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-37&quot; name=&quot;nh5-37&quot; id=&quot;nh5-37&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[37] Cornford indiquait la double r&#233;f&#233;rence &#224; Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te et &#224; Ph&#232;dre mais en (...)' &gt;37&lt;/a&gt;]. Socrate d&#233;clare en effet que les philosophes dont le genre est difficile &#224; distinguer du divin observent &#171; de haut &#187; la vie de ceux qui sont &#171; en bas &#187;. Cette &#171; hauteur &#187; pourrait correspondre au &#171; lieu pur de tout mal &#187; et Socrate attendrait alors de &#171; ceux qui sont en ce lieu-l&#224; &#187; une explication. Mais dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, le philosophe dont Socrate tra&#231;ait le portrait, cherchait &#224; atteindre ce &#171; topos &#187;, alors que dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, le philosophe &#233;voqu&#233; ironiquement par le m&#234;me Socrate, l'a d&#233;j&#224; atteint. Il est d&#233;j&#224; &#171; en haut &#187;. Le mouvement n'est plus ascendant mais accompli. Cet ach&#232;vement met justement en question l'action du personnage. Que peut-il faire d&#233;sormais parmi les hommes, &#224; part donner des le&#231;ons, puisque sa dynamique a d&#233;j&#224; &#233;t&#233; r&#233;alis&#233;e ? Socrate ne pose pas cette question. Mais Platon laisse au lecteur le soin de la d&#233;duire. Elle met en cause l'accomplissement philosophique qui pourrait s'atteindre ind&#233;pendamment des &#171; autres &#187;. Le philosophe serait alors un &#234;tre proprement divin, au dessus de l'humanit&#233;. Or s'il est selon Socrate celui qui se souvient le mieux du lieu de r&#233;alit&#233; et de v&#233;rit&#233; et oriente son action vers un lieu du m&#234;me type, il cherche, comme tous les &#171; autres &#187; &#224; se r&#233;aliser vraiment et ce pendant toute sa vie. Il est &#224; ce titre toujours en qu&#234;te d'intelligibilit&#233;. Il est en ce cas impossible de supposer accomplie son action, ind&#233;pendamment de l'accomplissement de toutes les autres. La &#171; hauteur &#187; dont parle Socrate au d&#233;but du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; ne peut donc correspondre au &#171; lieu pur de tout mal &#187; du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; que par d&#233;rision. Platon rirait de &#171; ce lieu-l&#224; &#187;, &#233;minence grise, pic enneig&#233; de l'intelligence, duquel tomberaient comme des couperets les avis et les jugements des philosophes. Mais au del&#224; de l'ironie, si l'on prend acte de la th&#233;orie de l'action illustr&#233;e dans le mythe de l'attelage, le visiteur &#233;tranger et ceux dont il est le porte-parole restent anim&#233;s, comme tout un chacun, par un d&#233;sir de r&#233;alit&#233; et de v&#233;rit&#233; qui les poussent vers l'intelligibilit&#233;, vers ce lieu supra c&#233;leste. Selon l'intensit&#233; de leur &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mania&lt;/i&gt;, il ont eu de la r&#233;alit&#233; une vue plus ou moins fragmentaire. Ils peuvent appartenir &#224; l'un des onze types d'&#226;me d&#233;nombr&#233;s par Socrate, peut-&#234;tre philosophe, peut-&#234;tre politique, peut-&#234;tre sophiste, toujours poss&#233;d&#233;s par une relative &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mania&lt;/i&gt;. Pour conna&#238;tre le genre de l'&#233;tranger et des siens, il conviendrait donc du point de vue socratique, de d&#233;terminer l'intensit&#233; du d&#233;sir qui motive leur conduite. Pour ce faire, &#171; topos &#187; est un crit&#232;re pertinent puisque l'on pourrait mesurer le &#171; niveau philosophique &#187; d'un discours, en examinant la nature plus ou moins intelligible, vraie et r&#233;elle des repr&#233;sentations de &#171; topos &#187; qui y seraient propos&#233;es. Socrate convie donc l'&#233;tranger &#224; r&#233;pondre &#224; la question &#224; partir du &#171; lieu &#187; de ceux dont il a re&#231;u des le&#231;ons, c'est &#224; dire &#224; partir de leur niveau maximal d'intelligibilit&#233;, et invite dans le m&#234;me temps le lecteur &#224; situer cette r&#233;ponse pr&#233;cis&#233;ment en fonction de ce &#171; lieu &#187;, en consid&#233;rant le sens qui a &#233;t&#233; donn&#233; explicitement ou non au mot &#171; topos &#187; par ceux qui furent les ma&#238;tres de l'&#233;tranger [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb5-38&quot; name=&quot;nh5-38&quot; id=&quot;nh5-38&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[38] Monique Canto fait tr&#232;s pertinemment de la &#171; pr&#233;tention de savoir &#187; un &#171; (...)' &gt;38&lt;/a&gt;].&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#171; Topos &#187;, mot crucial du probl&#232;me pos&#233; par Socrate dans l'introduction du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; (216a1-217a1) peut donc &#234;tre interpr&#233;t&#233; de fa&#231;on plurielle. Il peut d&#233;signer : premi&#232;rement, une adresse g&#233;ographique (le pays d'El&#233;e), deuxi&#232;mement, une &#233;cole philosophique (&#171; l'&#233;cole &#233;l&#233;atique &#187;) troisi&#232;mement, un classement rh&#233;torique (la &#171; classe &#187; des sp&#233;cialistes de la d&#233;finition des genres) ou quatri&#232;mement, un niveau d'intelligibilit&#233; (le seuil maximal d'une pens&#233;e discursive). Cette diversit&#233; m&#234;me participe de l'ironie qui caract&#233;rise l'ensemble de l'introduction du dialogue. Pareille polys&#233;mie peut mettre en doute le s&#233;rieux d'une entreprise qui pourrait n'&#234;tre que d'autol&#233;gitimation, &#171; le &#187; philosophe d&#233;finissant l'ensemble de tous &#171; les autres &#187; genres. Pourtant cette multiplicit&#233; de sens n'est pas p&#233;nalisante, au contraire. Car l'ironie permet de donner &#224; la question formul&#233;e par Socrate une pertinente ambigu&#239;t&#233;, celle qui justement convient pour ouvrir un d&#233;bat, en indiquant les diff&#233;rentes perspectives critiques possibles. La polys&#233;mie de &#171; topos &#187; invite ainsi le lecteur &#224; relativiser les propos de l'&#233;tranger de trois fa&#231;ons :
En les consid&#233;rant dans le cadre de l'action p&#233;dagogique conduite qui peut &#234;tre caract&#233;ris&#233;e en comparaison avec celle de Parm&#233;nide dans le dialogue &#233;ponyme et avec celle de Socrate dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;.
En les rapportant &#224; l'ensemble des discours rh&#233;toriques ou sophistiques tenus sur le m&#234;me sujet pour mesurer sur ce point les continuit&#233;s et les ruptures propos&#233;es par le visiteur &#233;l&#233;ate. En les examinant enfin selon les crit&#232;res socratiques du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt;, pour d&#233;terminer le sens accord&#233; &#224; &#171; topos &#187; au cours de l'expos&#233; afin d'appr&#233;cier son degr&#233; relatif d'intelligibilit&#233; et de d&#233;terminer ses limites.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socrate reformule imm&#233;diatement sa premi&#232;re question et r&#233;duit alors consid&#233;rablement le probl&#232;me (217a2-4). Mais il attend toujours une r&#233;ponse de la part de &#171; ceux qui sont et/ou s'occupent de ce lieu-l&#224; &#187;. &#171; Topos &#187; reste donc un crit&#232;re d'appr&#233;ciation pertinent. Cet article n'avait pas pour pr&#233;tention de l'&#233;clairer compl&#232;tement et d&#233;finitivement, mais avait pour but de montrer que son &#233;tude permet d'ouvrir des perspectives interpr&#233;tatives qui viennent compl&#233;ter les ex&#233;g&#232;ses plus classiques du dialogue.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;hr /&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_notes'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-1&quot; name=&quot;nb5-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-1&quot;&gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;O&#7985; &#960;&#949;&#961;&#8054; &#964;&#8056;&#957; &#7952;&#954;&#949;&#8150; &#964;&#972;&#960;&#959;&#957;&lt;/i&gt; &#187; (217a1).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-2&quot; name=&quot;nb5-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-2&quot;&gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] DIES, 1925 : &#171; A l'&#233;tranger pr&#233;cis&#233;ment, j'aurais plaisir &#224; demander, si ma question lui agr&#233;e, pour qui les tenaient les gens de son pays et de quels noms ils les appelaient &#187;. ROBIN, 1950 : &#171; En tous cas, j'aimerais, dans notre int&#233;r&#234;t, s'il lui pla&#238;t, &#224; apprendre de cet Etranger quelle id&#233;e, l&#224;-bas, dans son pays, on se faisait de cela, et quels noms on y appliquait &#187;. CHAMBRY, 1969 : &#171; Mais j'aimerais savoir de l'&#233;tranger, si ma question lui agr&#233;e, ce qu'en pensent les gens de son pays et comment il les nomment &#187;. .&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-3&quot; name=&quot;nb5-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-3&quot;&gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] Sa variante est plus lapidaire : &#171; Voil&#224; pourquoi, s'il lui pla&#238;t de me r&#233;pondre, j'aimerais entendre l'&#233;tranger nous dire ce que l'on pense chez lui de ces individus, et comment ils les nomment &#187; (CORDERO, 1993). Dans ses commentaires, Nestor Cordero marque une certaine distance par rapport &#224; ses pr&#233;d&#233;cesseurs comme nous le constaterons plus loin.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-4&quot; name=&quot;nb5-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-4&quot;&gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] Le consensus est tout aussi fort et de m&#234;me nature dans les traductions anglophones. Exception faite des versions de William Cobb (&#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;those in this area &lt;/i&gt;&#187;, COBB, 1990) et de Seth Benardete (&#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;those in that region &lt;/i&gt;&#187;, BENARDETE, 1986) la traduction &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#171; his countrymen &lt;/i&gt;&#187; (CAMPBELL, 1867 ; CORNFORD, 1935 ; ROSEN, 1983 ; DUERLINGER, 2005) l'emporte avec ses variantes (&#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;the people where he comes from&lt;/i&gt; &#187; WHITE, 1993 ; &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;the people who live over there &lt;/i&gt;&#187; BRANN/KALKAVAGE/SALEM, 1996 ; &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;the people of his region &lt;/i&gt;&#187;, AMBUEL, 2007).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-5&quot; name=&quot;nb5-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-5&quot;&gt;5&lt;/a&gt;] On trouve par contre dans des &#233;tudes plus th&#233;matiques des &#233;l&#233;ments d'analyse d&#233;cisifs. Ainsi dans son article &#171; Le dialogue platonicien comme forme de pens&#233;e ironique &#187;, Stefania Nonvel Pieri d&#233;finit l'ironie platonicienne comme &#171; l'effort de faire valoir les contraires de fa&#231;on non exclusive mais compl&#233;mentaire et polaire &#187; Cette d&#233;finition trouve pr&#233;cis&#233;ment &#224; s'exemplifier dans l'introduction du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; (NONVEL PIERI, 2001, p : 32).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-6&quot; name=&quot;nb5-6&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-6&quot;&gt;6&lt;/a&gt;] Sur ce point, Nestor Cordero a d&#233;fendu une lecture diff&#233;rente du texte grec. Notre propos n'est pas ici d'en discuter mais de faire valoir une approche alternative dans laquelle les analyses de Nestor Cordero sans &#234;tre ni exclusives, ni exclues, resteraient tout &#224; fait possibles et f&#233;condes. Voir : CORDERO, 1993, Annexe 1, p :281-284.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-7&quot; name=&quot;nb5-7&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-7&quot;&gt;7&lt;/a&gt;] Socrate conclut le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te &lt;/i&gt;en disant : &#171; mais, pour demain, Th&#233;odore, ici encore prenons rendez-vous &#187; (210d3-4).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-8&quot; name=&quot;nb5-8&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-8&quot;&gt;8&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; 184a1-b2.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-9&quot; name=&quot;nb5-9&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-9&quot;&gt;9&lt;/a&gt;] Dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cratyle&lt;/i&gt;, Socrate joue sur les noms en particulier ceux de Th&#233;ophile (ami de dieu) et Mn&#233;sith&#233;e (qui se souvient de dieu). &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cratyle,&lt;/i&gt; 394e4-7, 397b4-6.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-10&quot; name=&quot;nb5-10&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-10&quot;&gt;10&lt;/a&gt;] Sur cette interactivit&#233;, ce dialogue entre le texte et le lecteur, voir DESCLOS, 2001, p : 69-97.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-11&quot; name=&quot;nb5-11&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-11&quot;&gt;11&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Odyss&#233;e,&lt;/i&gt; XVII, 483-487.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-12&quot; name=&quot;nb5-12&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-12&quot;&gt;12&lt;/a&gt;] Il m&#234;le ainsi les passages XVII 483-487 et IX 270-271 de l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Odyss&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; (o&#249; Zeus est consid&#233;r&#233; comme le dieu des &#233;trangers).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-13&quot; name=&quot;nb5-13&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-13&quot;&gt;13&lt;/a&gt;] Th&#233;odore ne demande pas &#224; Socrate de qui il attend finalement une r&#233;ponse. Mais la p&#233;riphrase brouille compl&#232;tement l'intelligibilit&#233; imm&#233;diate de la question et c'est bien cela qui conduit le g&#233;om&#232;tre &#224; exiger une reformulation.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-14&quot; name=&quot;nb5-14&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-14&quot;&gt;14&lt;/a&gt;] Le prologue est tr&#232;s bref dans le cas du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;M&#233;non&lt;/i&gt;. Socrate prend pr&#233;texte de l'origine thessalienne de son interlocuteur pour d&#233;noncer l'ignorance de ses propres concitoyens en ce qui concerne la vertu : &#171; la sagesse a d&#233;sert&#233; ces lieux &#187; d&#233;clare-t-il (71a1). Dans &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd&#232;me&lt;/i&gt;, les deux sophistes dont la performance sera ensuite rapport&#233;e sont pr&#233;sent&#233;s &#224; Criton par Socrate. Apr&#232;s les avoir identifi&#233;s, il s'agit de les localiser. Emigrants loin de Chios, puis exil&#233;s loin de Thurium, ils &#171; passent d&#233;sormais leur temps dans ces lieux-ci &#187; (271c4). Leur d&#233;rive est telle qu'Ath&#232;nes n'est m&#234;me pas nomm&#233;e ; aucun des espaces travers&#233;s par ces sophistes n'a, pour eux, jamais fait sens, ni suscit&#233; aucun attachement. Par contre l'expression &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#960;&#949;&#961;&#8054; &#964;&#959;&#973;&#963;&#948;&#949; &#964;&#959;&#8058;&#962; &#964;&#972;&#960;&#959;&#965;&#962;&lt;/i&gt; est d&#233;nu&#233;e de toute ambigu&#239;t&#233; : il s'agit &#171; de ces lieux-ci&#187; c'est-&#224;-dire d'Ath&#232;nes. Enfin l'introduction du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt; est toute enti&#232;re consacr&#233;e &#224; c&#233;l&#233;brer les charmes du lieu vers lequel les deux protagonistes ont conduit leurs pas : &#171; lieu qui ne peut embaumer davantage tant le gattilier est en fleurs &#187; (230b4) &#171; lieu agr&#233;able et charmant, rafraichi par la brise &#187; (230c1).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-15&quot; name=&quot;nb5-15&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-15&quot;&gt;15&lt;/a&gt;] Il &#233;crit en effet : &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socrates could not have phrased his question more obscurely &lt;/i&gt;&#187; (BENARDETE, 1986, p : II, 73).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-16&quot; name=&quot;nb5-16&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-16&quot;&gt;16&lt;/a&gt;] En &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#233;don&lt;/i&gt; 69c8, Socrate parle de &#171; ceux qui s'occupent des initiations &#187;. La construction est la m&#234;me : &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#959;&#7985; &#960;&#949;&#961;&#8054; &#964;&#8048;&#962; &#964;&#949;&#955;&#949;&#964;&#940;&#962;&lt;/i&gt;, pronom + pr&#233;position &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#960;&#949;&#961;&#8054;&lt;/i&gt; + accusatif sans verbe.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-17&quot; name=&quot;nb5-17&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-17&quot;&gt;17&lt;/a&gt;] CORDERO, 1991, p : 91-124.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-18&quot; name=&quot;nb5-18&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-18&quot;&gt;18&lt;/a&gt;] CORDERO, 1991, p : 98.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-19&quot; name=&quot;nb5-19&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-19&quot;&gt;19&lt;/a&gt;] Marcel Detienne a mis en &#233;vidence les parall&#232;les existant entre Epim&#233;nide, le sage extatique et Parm&#233;nide le philosophe de l'&#234;tre. Proche du &#171; Ma&#238;tre de V&#233;rit&#233; &#187; l'El&#233;ate s'en distingue n&#233;anmoins parce qu'il prend en compte les &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;doxai&lt;/i&gt;, &#171; premi&#232;re &#233;bauche d'une v&#233;rit&#233; objective, d'une v&#233;rit&#233; qui s'institue dans et par le dialogue &#187; (DETIENNE, 1967, p : 202).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-20&quot; name=&quot;nb5-20&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-20&quot;&gt;20&lt;/a&gt;] Socrate conclut le dialogue &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; par ces mots : &#171; Pour l'instant donc, j'ai rendez-vous oblig&#233; au Portique du Roi, pour r&#233;pondre &#224; l'accusation que m'a intent&#233;e M&#233;l&#233;tos &#187; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, 210d1-4).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-21&quot; name=&quot;nb5-21&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-21&quot;&gt;21&lt;/a&gt;] En t&#233;moignent les &#233;crits d'Alcidamas et d'Isocrate. Sur l'histoire du mot &#171; sophiste &#187; voir notamment CAPIZZI, 1986.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-22&quot; name=&quot;nb5-22&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-22&quot;&gt;22&lt;/a&gt;] Par cette ironie &#224; double entr&#233;e, Socrate est tout &#224; la fois un philosophe inspir&#233; et un sophiste rou&#233; et se moque de toutes ces apparences. L'ironie n'est plus alors agressive et blessante mais tout au contraire source d'enseignement, point de d&#233;part d'une r&#233;flexion. Elle annule ses effets pervers. C'est pourquoi le visiteur &#233;l&#233;ate se rend avec bonne gr&#226;ce &#224; la pri&#232;re finale de Socrate et commence avec le jeune Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te le dialogue (217e3-5).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-23&quot; name=&quot;nb5-23&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-23&quot;&gt;23&lt;/a&gt;] Comme le note pertinemment Francis Wolff : &#171; le Sophiste, c'est toujours l'autre &#187; (WOLFF, 1991, p :36). D&#233;finir les genres est un enjeu complexe d'abord et avant tout de pouvoir, dans le cadre agonistique de Polis. C'est ainsi que Socrate dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt;, fait du sophiste un expert en discours qui n'a au fond pour seul d&#233;faut que d'aller de ville en ville, sans jamais participer aux d&#233;bats et aux combats que livrent les vrais citoyens (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e&lt;/i&gt;, 19cd). C'est pour Platon l'occasion de souligner face &#224; Critias et &#224; Tim&#233;e, deux citoyens bien n&#233;s, honor&#233;s dans leurs patries respectives, qu'un sophiste est d'abord un m&#233;t&#232;que ou un &#233;tranger. C'est de ce point de vue social ou politique que sa parole est au premier chef suspecte.
Pour se d&#233;barrasser des opinions &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;a priori&lt;/i&gt;, voir l'article de Guiseppe Mazzara qui propose une interpr&#233;tation &#171; autre &#187; du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, en lisant le dialogue &#224; travers les cat&#233;gories de Gorgias. Ce dernier est ainsi implicitement tenu pour un &#171; philosophe &#187; et non comme il est de convention pour un &#171; sophiste &#187; (MAZZARA, 1991).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-24&quot; name=&quot;nb5-24&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-24&quot;&gt;24&lt;/a&gt;] D'une part parce que le &#171; monisme &#187; n'appara&#238;t qu'avec Melissos et d'autre part parce que rien ne permet de supposer dans les faits qu'un mouvement intellectuel se soit d&#233;velopp&#233; &#224; partir de la pens&#233;e des philosophes d'El&#233;e (CORDERO, 1991, p :124).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-25&quot; name=&quot;nb5-25&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-25&quot;&gt;25&lt;/a&gt;] MANSFELD, 1990, p :22-43.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-26&quot; name=&quot;nb5-26&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-26&quot;&gt;26&lt;/a&gt;] Francis Wolff rappelle que savoir si sophiste, politique et philosophe sont un, deux ou trois genres &#233;tait un d&#233;bat auquel avait pris part notamment Isocrate et Prodicos (WOLFF, 1991). C'est donc un &#171; th&#232;me &#187; ou un &#171; sujet &#187; connu &#224; l'&#233;poque de Platon.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-27&quot; name=&quot;nb5-27&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-27&quot;&gt;27&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt;, 243e8-256e2.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-28&quot; name=&quot;nb5-28&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-28&quot;&gt;28&lt;/a&gt;] Dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, l'allusion &#224; la &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mania&lt;/i&gt; et la r&#233;f&#233;rence au mythe &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;via&lt;/i&gt; Hom&#232;re font clairement signe en direction du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt;. Il y a bien comme une esp&#232;ce de classement des arts et des sciences donc des &#171; activit&#233;s &#187; dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phil&#232;be&lt;/i&gt; (55b-63b). Mais comme l'a pr&#233;cis&#233; tr&#232;s nettement Monique Dixsaut, il s'agit en fait &#171; d'un tri &#187; en vue d'un m&#233;lange &#224; venir et en aucune fa&#231;on d'un classement syst&#233;matique (DIXSAUT, 2001, p :326). L'objectif n'est donc pas dans ce dernier dialogue de d&#233;finir les &#171; actions &#187;, pas m&#234;me au titre de &#171; conduites &#187;. Or c'est pr&#233;cis&#233;ment non point la finalit&#233; mais en tous cas le r&#233;sultat obtenu dans le mythe du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-29&quot; name=&quot;nb5-29&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-29&quot;&gt;29&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre &lt;/i&gt;248c2-e4. Premier rang : l'ami du savoir (philosophe), de la Beaut&#233;, des Muses et d'Eros ; second : roi qui ob&#233;it &#224; la loi ou qui guerroie et commande ; troisi&#232;me : politique, &#233;conome et financier ; quatri&#232;me : gymnaste et m&#233;decin ; cinqui&#232;me : devin et initi&#233; ; sixi&#232;me : po&#232;te et art mim&#233;tique ; septi&#232;me : artisan et cultivateur, huiti&#232;me : sophiste et d&#233;magogue ; neuvi&#232;me : tyran.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-30&quot; name=&quot;nb5-30&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-30&quot;&gt;30&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre,&lt;/i&gt; 248a1, 248c3,&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; &lt;/i&gt;245b1-2&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;, &lt;/i&gt;246d6-247e8.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-31&quot; name=&quot;nb5-31&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-31&quot;&gt;31&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre, &lt;/i&gt;247c3-e7&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;, &lt;/i&gt;248b6-c1.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-32&quot; name=&quot;nb5-32&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-32&quot;&gt;32&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre,&lt;/i&gt;247e8-248c2,&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; &lt;/i&gt;248a1-b6.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-33&quot; name=&quot;nb5-33&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-33&quot;&gt;33&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre, &lt;/i&gt;249e5-250b1.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-34&quot; name=&quot;nb5-34&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-34&quot;&gt;34&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te &lt;/i&gt;entre 176a4 et 177a8.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-35&quot; name=&quot;nb5-35&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-35&quot;&gt;35&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te,&lt;/i&gt;173e1-174a1,&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; &lt;/i&gt;176a7-b3.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-36&quot; name=&quot;nb5-36&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-36&quot;&gt;36&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te, &lt;/i&gt;172e-173b, 176a4-7.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-37&quot; name=&quot;nb5-37&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-37&quot;&gt;37&lt;/a&gt;] Cornford indiquait la double r&#233;f&#233;rence &#224; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te &lt;/i&gt;et &#224; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ph&#232;dre&lt;/i&gt; mais en laissant le soin au lecteur de se rapporter &#224; ces dialogues donc sans en tirer de cons&#233;quence quant &#224; l'occurrence de &#171; topos &#187; (CORNFORD, 1935). Seth Benardete est plus pr&#233;cis qui cible ce mot mais qui ne renvoie qu'&#224; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; et seulement en note sans d&#233;veloppement (BENARDETE, 1986, p : II, 73, note 10). Il s'inscrirait ainsi dans une tradition ex&#233;g&#233;tique que je dirais du &#171; commentaire allusif &#187;, typiquement platonicienne puisqu'elle engage avec le lecteur attentif un dialogue dynamique.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh5-38&quot; name=&quot;nb5-38&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 5-38&quot;&gt;38&lt;/a&gt;] Monique Canto fait tr&#232;s pertinemment de la &#171; pr&#233;tention de savoir &#187; un &#171; lieu de confusion&#187; (CANTO, 1986, p :29). &#171; Topos &#187; est en effet et litt&#233;ralement ce vers quoi tend la dynamique d'une &#226;me, ax&#233;e vers l'intelligibilit&#233;. En cons&#233;quence ce qu'un &#234;tre peut pr&#233;-tendre savoir, c'est bien au fond un &#171; lieu &#187; mais qui en &#233;tant le bout de sa conduite, reste toujours en partie confus, tout au moins dans son expression sociale.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_ps'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;PLATON : &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dialogues&lt;/i&gt;, collection Guillaume Bud&#233;, Belles Lettres, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;HOMERE : Odyss&#233;e IX et XVII, collection Guillaume Bud&#233;, Belles Lettres, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;PARMENIDE, le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; traduit par O'BRIEN D. et FRERE J., 1987, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Etudes sur Parm&#233;nide&lt;/i&gt;, tome I, sous la direction de Pierre AUBENQUE, Vrin, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h4 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Traductions et commentaires du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; :&lt;/h4&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;AMBUEL D., 2007, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Image &amp; paradigm in Plato's Sophist&lt;/i&gt;, Parmenides Publishing, Las Vegas.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;BENARDETE S., 1986, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Sophist, Part II of the Being of the Beautiful&lt;/i&gt;, translated and with commentary, The University of Chicago Press, Chicago.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;BRANN E., KALKAVAGE P., SALEM E., 1996, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Sophist or the Professor of Wisdom&lt;/i&gt;, Focus Publishing, Newbury Port.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CAMPBELL L., 1867, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The Sophist and Politicus of Plato&lt;/i&gt;, with a revised text and English notes, Oxford.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CHAMBRY E., 1969, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste, Politique, Phil&#232;be, Tim&#233;e, Critias&lt;/i&gt;, Garnier Flammarion, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;COBB W. S., 1990, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Sophist&lt;/i&gt;, Rowman &amp; Littlefield publishers, Maryland.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CORDERO N. L., 1993, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platon Le Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, Garnier Flammarion, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CORNFORD F. Mc D., 1935, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's theory of knowledge&lt;/i&gt;, Routledge, London.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;DIES A., 1925, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platon Le Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, Belles Lettres, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;DUERLINGER J., 2005, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;A translation of Plato's Sophist&lt;/i&gt;, Peter Lang, New York.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ROBIN L., 1950, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platon, Oeuvres compl&#232;tes&lt;/i&gt;, t. II, avec la collaboration de M. J. MOREAU, Gallimard, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ROSEN S., 1983, Plato's Sophist, the Drama of Original and Image, St Augustine's Press, Yale.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;WHITE N.P., 1993, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato Sophist&lt;/i&gt;, Hackett Publishing Company, Cambridge, Indianapolis.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h4 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Articles autour du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;:&lt;/h4&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CANTO M., 1986, &#171; Politiques de la r&#233;futation. Entre chien et loup : le philosophe et le sophiste &#187;, p : 27-51, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Positions de la Sophistique&lt;/i&gt;, colloque de Cerisy, 7-17 septembre 1984, &#233;dit&#233; par B. CASSIN, Vrin, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CAPIZZI A., 1986, &#171; La confluence des Sophistes &#224; Ath&#232;nes apr&#232;s la mort de P&#233;ricl&#232;s et ses connexions avec les transformations de la cit&#233; attique &#187;, p : 167-177, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Positions de la Sophistique&lt;/i&gt;, colloque de Cerisy, 7-17 septembre 1984, &#233;dit&#233; par B. CASSIN, Vrin, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CORDERO N. L., 1991, &#171; L'invention de l'&#233;cole &#233;l&#233;atique, Platon &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; 242d &#187;, p : 91-124, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Etudes sur le Sophiste de Platon&lt;/i&gt;, sous la direction de P. AUBENQUE, Bibliopolis, Naples.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;DESCLOS, M.L., 2001, &#8220;L'interlocuteur anonyme dans les dialogues de Platon &#187;, p : 69-97, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;La forme dialogue chez Platon, &#233;volution et r&#233;ception&lt;/i&gt;, textes r&#233;unis par F. COSSUTTA et M. NARCY, &#233;ditions J&#233;rome Millon, Grenoble.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;MANSFELD J., 1990, &#171; Aristotle, Plato, and Preplatonic Doxography and Chronography &#187;, p : 22-83, Studies in the Historiography of Greek Philosophy , Van Gorcum, Maastricht, (premi&#232;re parution de l'article 1986).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;MAZZARA G., 1991, &#171; Quelques remarques sur Gorgias et les Gorgiens dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; &#187;, p : 233-241, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Argumentation&lt;/i&gt;, 5.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;NONVEL PIERI S., 2001, &#171; Le dialogue platonicien comme forme de pens&#233;e ironique &#187;, p : 21-48, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;La forme dialogue chez Platon, &#233;volution et r&#233;ception&lt;/i&gt;, textes r&#233;unis par F. COSSUTTA et M. NARCY, &#233;ditions J&#233;rome Millon, Grenoble.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;WOLFF F., 1991, &#171; Le chasseur chass&#233;, les d&#233;finitions du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; &#187;, p : 17-52, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Etudes sur le Sophiste de Platon&lt;/i&gt;, sous la direction de P. AUBENQUE, Bibliopolis, Naples.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h4 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dialectique :&lt;/h4&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;DETIENNE M., 1967, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Les ma&#238;tres de v&#233;rit&#233; dans la Gr&#232;ce archa&#239;que&lt;/i&gt;, Librairie Fran&#231;ois Maspero, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;DIXSAUT M., 2001, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;M&#233;tamorphoses de la dialectique dans les dialogues de Platon&lt;/i&gt;, Vrin, Paris.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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		<title>2. La &#171; Guerre d'El&#233;e &#187; a-t-elle eu &#171; lieu &#187; ?</title>
		<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article116</link>
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		<dc:date>2013-03-24T11:06:15Z</dc:date>
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		<dc:language>en</dc:language>
		<dc:creator>NERCAM, Nathalie</dc:creator>



		<description>Dans la premi&#232;re partie du Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te, Socrate pr&#233;sente l'opposition entre pluralisme et monisme sous la forme m&#233;taphorique de la Guerre de Troie. Cette dramaturgie particuli&#232;re permet &#224; Platon de faire valoir une question philosophique qui proviendrait de Parm&#233;nide. La mise en image platonicienne interroge en fait la r&#233;alit&#233; et le sens de kh&#244;ra/topos. &lt;br /&gt;In the first part of Theaetetus, Socrates shows the opposition between pluralism and monism through the metaphoric form of the Trojan War. This (&amp;hellip;)


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&lt;a href="http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?rubrique13" rel="directory"&gt;12. Plato 12 (2012)&lt;/a&gt;


		</description>


 <content:encoded>&lt;div class='rss_chapo'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dans la premi&#232;re partie du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, Socrate pr&#233;sente l'opposition entre pluralisme et monisme sous la forme m&#233;taphorique de la Guerre de Troie. Cette dramaturgie particuli&#232;re permet &#224; Platon de faire valoir une question philosophique qui proviendrait de Parm&#233;nide. La mise en image platonicienne interroge en fait la r&#233;alit&#233; et le sens de &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;/topos.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;In the first part of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Theaetetus,&lt;/i&gt; Socrates shows the opposition between pluralism and monism through the metaphoric form of the Trojan War. This particular dramatization allows Plato to make evident a question inherited from Parmenides. This platonic picture questions the reality and the meaning of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;/topos.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_texte'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;De fa&#231;on consensuelle, l'ex&#233;g&#232;se contemporaine consid&#232;re que Platon a survaloris&#233; un aspect secondaire de la pens&#233;e de Parm&#233;nide : l'unit&#233; de l'&#234;tre. Le philosophe d'El&#233;e ne serait pas le d&#233;fenseur encore moins le promoteur du &#171; monisme &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-1&quot; name=&quot;nh6-1&quot; id=&quot;nh6-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[1] Voir en particulier BARNES, 1979.' &gt;1&lt;/a&gt;]. Jaap Mansfeld a montr&#233; que d'anciennes compilations issues probablement de la Premi&#232;re Sophistique avaient, avant Platon, class&#233; les philosophes selon des crit&#232;res particuliers et notamment en fonction du nombre de principes reconnus par chacun d'eux [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-2&quot; name=&quot;nh6-2&quot; id=&quot;nh6-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[2] MANSFELD, 1990.' &gt;2&lt;/a&gt;]. Il aurait donc &#233;t&#233; d&#233;j&#224; admis au IV&#176; si&#232;cle de pr&#233;senter Parm&#233;nide comme un tenant de l'unit&#233;. Nestor Cordero a pr&#233;cis&#233; la fa&#231;on dont Platon, dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt;, a adopt&#233; et transform&#233; &#224; ses propres fins, ces anciens sch&#233;mas classificatoires [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-3&quot; name=&quot;nh6-3&quot; id=&quot;nh6-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[3] CORDERO, 1991.' &gt;3&lt;/a&gt;]. On peut conduire une analyse semblable sur le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, dialogue dans la premi&#232;re partie duquel Platon r&#233;emploie un classement d'origine tr&#232;s probablement doxographique dont Isocrate donne un exemple dans deux de ses discours. Cet article se propose de r&#233;pondre &#224; la double question : comment et pourquoi dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, Platon a-t-il repris &#224; son compte des classifications d&#233;j&#224; &#233;tablies avant lui ?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;1. La &#171; guerre d'El&#233;e &#187;&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Par principe ma&#239;eutique, Socrate ne d&#233;veloppe que des arguments appartenant au fond de connaissances de son jeune vis &#224; vis. La d&#233;monstration du philosophe, dans la premi&#232;re partie du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, pourrait donc reposer sur d'anciennes compilations connues de l'&#233;l&#232;ve math&#233;maticien. Or, comme l'a fait remarquer Jaap Mansfeld, un classement des philosophes est propos&#233;e par Isocrate dans le discours &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sur l'&#233;change&lt;/i&gt; o&#249; les th&#233;ories pr&#233;socratiques sont distribu&#233;es en fonction du nombre de r&#233;alit&#233;s en chaque cas prises en compte [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-4&quot; name=&quot;nh6-4&quot; id=&quot;nh6-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[4] MANSFELD, 1990, p : 26.' &gt;4&lt;/a&gt;]. Isocrate d&#233;clare : &#171; l'un pr&#233;tendait que les &#234;tres sont en nombre infini, tandis qu'Emp&#233;docle n'en voyait que quatre avec la discorde et l'amour entre eux, Ion n'en comptait pas plus de trois, Alcm&#233;on deux seulement, Parm&#233;nide et Melissos un, Gorgias absolument aucun &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-5&quot; name=&quot;nh6-5&quot; id=&quot;nh6-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[5] Sur l&amp;#39;&#233;change, 268.' &gt;5&lt;/a&gt;]. Le rh&#233;teur avait d&#233;j&#224; utilis&#233; le m&#234;me principe classificatoire dans l&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;'Eloge d'H&#233;l&#232;ne&lt;/i&gt;. &#171; Comment surpasserait-on, &#233;crivait-il, Gorgias qui osa d&#233;clarer que rien n'existe de ce qui est, ou Z&#233;non qui tente de pr&#233;senter successivement la m&#234;me th&#232;se comme possible ou impossible, ou Melissos qui devant la masse infinie des r&#233;alit&#233;s existantes s'effor&#231;a de d&#233;couvrir une preuve que leur ensemble formait un tout unique ? &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-6&quot; name=&quot;nh6-6&quot; id=&quot;nh6-6&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[6] Eloge d&amp;#39;H&#233;l&#232;ne, 3.' &gt;6&lt;/a&gt;].&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platon dans la premi&#232;re partie du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; a adopt&#233; un classement semblable sur son principe &#224; celui d'Isocrate : les anciens philosophes sont ordonn&#233;s en fonction du nombre de leurs principes. Mais si le rh&#233;teur pr&#233;sente les th&#233;ories philosophiques en leur diversit&#233;, il en va tout autrement dans l'expos&#233; socratique [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-7&quot; name=&quot;nh6-7&quot; id=&quot;nh6-7&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[7] Entre 152e et 183e.' &gt;7&lt;/a&gt;]. En effet les penseurs grecs &#233;voqu&#233;s sont tous regroup&#233;s en deux ligues oppos&#233;es. D'un c&#244;t&#233;, H&#233;raclite, Emp&#233;docle, Protagoras et Epicharme sont assembl&#233;s en un vaste dispositif dont Hom&#232;re est le strat&#232;ge. Ils affirment tous d'une seule voix, la pluralit&#233; et la mobilit&#233; de toute r&#233;alit&#233; (152e2-7 et 180d8) et font le si&#232;ge d'une citadelle d&#233;fendue par &#171; les Melissos &#187; et &#171; les Parm&#233;nide &#187; qui proclament au contraire l'unit&#233; et l'immobilit&#233; de l'&#234;tre (180e2-4). La classification doxographique aurait ainsi &#233;t&#233; simplifi&#233;e, r&#233;duite en une confrontation sch&#233;matique entre d&#233;fenseurs de la th&#232;se de &#171; l'unit&#233; statique &#187; et d&#233;fenseurs de l'antith&#232;se, &#171; la multiplicit&#233; changeante &#187;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Isocrate cherchait &#224; exposer en quelques lignes les principes qu'il attribuait aux divers philosophes. Le Socrate de Platon propose au jeune Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te une m&#233;taphore poursuivie sur plus de vingt pages. Il donne en effet &#224; l'opposition des th&#232;ses la forme de l'affrontement guerrier. Ainsi Parm&#233;nide, seul face &#224; l'arm&#233;e des pluralistes (152e2) est semblable au h&#233;ros troyen Priam (183e5). En 180e1-2, Socrate cite un vers du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; pour illustrer le parti pris &#171; des Melissos &#187; et &#171; des Parm&#233;nide &#187; qui combattent les &#171; Hom&#233;riques &#187;. La m&#233;taphore de la guerre est d&#233;velopp&#233;e au del&#224; de ces trois allusions directes. En 165d, la discussion dans laquelle s'engage le jeune Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te n'est qu'un &#171; combat de parole &#187; et en 179d4, le d&#233;bat engag&#233; autour de la th&#232;se mobiliste est &#224; nouveau consid&#233;r&#233; comme une &#171; bataille &#187;. Ce leitmotiv guerrier est par ailleurs diversement d&#233;clin&#233; : le conflit est aussi comp&#233;tition chorale (179d7) puis jeu comme dans les palestres (181a2). En tous ces cas, le combat, l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ag&#244;n&lt;/i&gt;, est ouvert sous diff&#233;rentes formes, toutes consacr&#233;es par la Cit&#233;. Socrate ne d&#233;crit donc que la rivalit&#233; des th&#233;ories entre elles et inscrit Parm&#233;nide dans le champ de bataille des discours.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Isocrate caract&#233;risait de fa&#231;on lapidaire la r&#233;flexion de chaque philosophe. Dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, lorsque Socrate d&#233;sire percer la sp&#233;cificit&#233; des vues d'un penseur particulier, en l'occurrence Protagoras, la m&#233;taphore du champ de bataille est abandonn&#233;e afin que le grand sophiste puisse se d&#233;fendre en personne. Une apologie est alors longuement d&#233;velopp&#233;e (165e7-168c5). S'il n'en va pas de m&#234;me pour les d&#233;fenseurs du camp oppos&#233; c'est parce que Socrate d&#233;clare explicitement ne pas disposer d'assez de temps pour examiner rigoureusement les positions de Melissos et de Parm&#233;nide dont la complexit&#233; est &#224; cette occasion soulign&#233;e (183e3-184b2). Les deux th&#232;ses monolithiques qui s'entrechoquent n'appartiennent donc &#224; aucun individu singulier. Le conflit est celui des repr&#233;sentations id&#233;ologiques, images des id&#233;es philosophiques r&#233;duites en affirmations massives et partag&#233;es en deux camps sch&#233;matiquement oppos&#233;s.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Isocrate appr&#233;ciait les th&#233;ories philosophiques selon un m&#234;me crit&#232;re, le nombre de r&#233;alit&#233;s. Elles &#233;taient ainsi plac&#233;es comme &#224; &#233;quivalence en un rapide tour d'horizon. La dimension guerri&#232;re donn&#233;e au conflit dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; implique au contraire un camp vainqueur et un autre vaincu. Les slogans ne sont donc pas &#224; &#233;galit&#233;. De plus, la fresque &#233;pique est d&#233;peinte ouvertement &#224; la fa&#231;on d'Hom&#232;re, comme une nouvelle guerre de Troie. Or c'est justement le grand A&#232;de qui dirige les troupes des &#171; pluralistes/mobilistes &#187;. La restitution m&#233;taphorique du combat serait donc de parti-pris. Platon ferait fonds sur un cercle historiographique bien connu : si guerre il y a, elle est toujours d&#233;crite par ceux qui en sont sortis vivants donc vainqueurs. En usant des mots et des images appartenant au camp des &#171; Hom&#233;riques &#187;, Socrate indiquerait ainsi que la th&#232;se de ces derniers en l'emportant sur celle des &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187; constitue, &#224; l'&#233;poque du jeune Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te, la repr&#233;sentation id&#233;ologique dominante qui d&#233;termine le cadre et les termes du d&#233;bat et qui d&#233;finit en particulier les bellig&#233;rants. Socrate aurait donc adopt&#233; le point de vue des &#171; pluralistes &#187; pour pr&#233;senter la tendance &#171; Parm&#233;nide &#187;, vaincue sur le plan de l'opinion, cependant qu'en parall&#232;le, dans le m&#234;me ouvrage, il aurait produit une critique raisonn&#233;e de la th&#232;se &#171; pluraliste &#187; dominante, mais d&#233;faite finalement par la d&#233;monstration. Dans ce jeu m&#233;taphorique, Platon croise donc les arguments. C'est ainsi qu'il use du principe unitaire pour assembler les &#171; pluralistes &#187; sous une m&#234;me banni&#232;re. Ils triompheraient donc des &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187; dans &#171; l'union &#187;, ce qui rend &#233;videmment cette victoire tr&#232;s relative.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apr&#232;s les avoir pr&#233;sent&#233;es, Isocrate disqualifiait les diverses th&#232;ses pr&#233;socratiques, toutes finalement rejet&#233;es par le rh&#233;teur au titre &#171; d'artifice charlatanesque &#187;, les antiques penseurs affectant selon lui de confondre en paroles l'auditeur [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-8&quot; name=&quot;nh6-8&quot; id=&quot;nh6-8&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[8] Eloge d&amp;#39;H&#233;l&#232;ne, 4.' &gt;8&lt;/a&gt;]. Pour Platon, ces vieilles querelles qui peuvent et doivent &#234;tre d&#233;pass&#233;es, ne sont pas des jeux artificieux. Elles prennent m&#234;me, sous couvert d'ironie et par m&#233;taphore interpos&#233;e, une ampleur litt&#233;ralement &#233;pique, comme s'il s'agissait d'un choc de civilisations.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Il convient d'ajouter enfin que la guerre de Troie est l'image de pr&#233;dilection par laquelle les orateurs ath&#233;niens d&#233;crivent les conflits arm&#233;s de leur temps [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-9&quot; name=&quot;nh6-9&quot; id=&quot;nh6-9&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[9] Voir en particulier Isocrate : Pan&#233;gyrique, 81-84, Eloge d&amp;#39;H&#233;l&#232;ne, (...)' &gt;9&lt;/a&gt;]. Platon emprunterait donc &#224; l'art oratoire, et le principe classificatoire, et la m&#233;taphore. Mais il appliquerait ces moyens &#224; d&#233;crire un combat tout &#224; fait singulier. Loin de pr&#233;senter comme Isocrate le vaste panorama des anciennes th&#232;ses philosophiques sur le terrain neutre de sa page, Platon r&#233;duirait la multiplicit&#233; des th&#233;ories &#224; une simple opposition binaire dont la connotation guerri&#232;re transforme compl&#232;tement l'appr&#233;hension. Ce duel polarise en effet tout le d&#233;bat autour de la philosophie de Parm&#233;nide. Si elle sort vaincu de l'&#233;preuve du combat des opinions, on ne pourrait, selon Platon, avaliser cette d&#233;faite sans proc&#233;der &#224; un examen s&#233;rieux des questions soulev&#233;es par l'ancien philosophe d'El&#233;e.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;2. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; dans la &#171; Guerre d'El&#233;e &#187;.&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Les enjeux principaux de cette guerre id&#233;ologique sont bien connus. La critique contemporaine reconna&#238;t en g&#233;n&#233;ral deux des mots d'ordre affich&#233;s sur les banni&#232;res du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; : pluralisme contre monisme, dynamisme contre statisme. La prise en compte du contexte &#233;pique dans lequel Platon situe ce d&#233;bat, permet d'accorder &#224; un troisi&#232;me terme une importance que le seul examen des slogans ne permet pas toujours de soup&#231;onner. Ce mot pol&#233;mique est &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; &#187;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socrate r&#233;sume en effet en une seule formule la position d&#233;fendue par &#171; les Melissos et les Parm&#233;nide &#187;. Ils soutiennent que &#171; tout est un et se tient immobile en soi-m&#234;me, n'ayant point de place (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;) en laquelle se mouvoir &#187; (180e3-4). La position des &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187; &#233;tant inverse &#224; celle des &#171; Hom&#233;riques &#187;, il suit que pour ceux-ci, tout est multiple, en mouvement perp&#233;tuel et qu'il existe une place n&#233;cessaire &#224; ce changement comme &#224; cette multiplicit&#233;. On peut v&#233;rifier l'importance de &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; dans la th&#232;se &#171; pluraliste/mobiliste &#187;, en examinant les trois autres occurrences de ce mot. Ce sont les seules du dialogue. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; n'est donc employ&#233;e dans cet ouvrage que pour d&#233;crire la r&#233;alit&#233; selon les &#171; Hom&#233;riques &#187;. A leurs yeux, rien n'a de localisation propre dans un flux g&#233;n&#233;ralis&#233; et suppos&#233; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;a priori&lt;/i&gt;. La couleur par exemple n'est ni dans l'&#339;il, ni dans l'objet. Elle n'a pas m&#234;me de place (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#967;&#974;&#961;&#945;&#957;&lt;/i&gt;, premi&#232;re occurrence en 153e1) o&#249; se ranger puisqu'elle est en mouvement permanent. Seules existent des forces actives et passives qui d&#233;terminent des sensations et des qualit&#233;s. En 181c6 et toujours par la voix de Socrate, les m&#234;mes &#171; Hom&#233;riques &#187; d&#233;finissent le mouvement. Il consiste soit &#224; se d&#233;placer d'une &#171; place &#224; une autre &#187; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#967;&#974;&#961;&#945;&#957; &#7952;&#954; &#967;&#974;&#961;&#945;&#962;, &lt;/i&gt;deuxi&#232;me et troisi&#232;me occurrences en 181c6 et c62) soit &#224; tourner sur soi-m&#234;me, soit enfin &#224; s'alt&#233;rer. Les trois types de changement se cumulant, la r&#233;alit&#233; est toujours dans un mouvement perp&#233;tuel et g&#233;n&#233;ral. Selon les &#171; Hom&#233;riques &#187;, tout est donc en changement, en particulier de place en place (181c6) donc rien n'a de place assign&#233;e (153e1). &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; serait en quelque sorte le support g&#233;n&#233;ral de ces dynamiques dans quoi ou par quoi de multiples r&#233;alit&#233;s se meuvent et s'alt&#232;rent. Elle pourrait &#224; ce titre faire partie des grands th&#232;mes du &#171; combat de parole &#187; engag&#233;e entre les &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187; et les &#171; Hom&#233;riques &#187;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;En consid&#233;rant la m&#233;taphore par laquelle Socrate pr&#233;sente le si&#232;ge d'El&#233;e, on peut confirmer l'hypoth&#232;se pr&#233;c&#233;dente et pr&#233;ciser quelques uns des caract&#232;res de cette probl&#233;matique &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;. Remarquons tout d'abord que le mot appartient au vocabulaire de l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Iliade&lt;/i&gt; et de l'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Odyss&#233;e&lt;/i&gt; et signifie l'espace de terre limit&#233; et occup&#233; par quelqu'un ou quelque chose. Or le conflit des repr&#233;sentations est par image interpos&#233;e, situ&#233; pr&#233;cis&#233;ment devant la citadelle d'El&#233;e, la nouvelle Troie. Il prend donc litt&#233;ralement &#171; place &#187;. Cette &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; m&#233;taphorique, la cit&#233; &#171; troyenne-&#233;l&#233;ate &#187;, est un singulier champ de bataille.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;En effet aucun rep&#232;re, ni chronologique, ni g&#233;ographique n'est fix&#233; car l'expos&#233; de Socrate est b&#226;ti en d&#233;pit de toutes les distances. Protagoras d'Abd&#232;re c&#244;toie H&#233;raclite d'Eph&#232;se, voisin d'Emp&#233;docle d'Agrigente et d'Epicharme de Syracuse. Ces divers personnages sont tous r&#233;unis en Asie Mineure devant la cit&#233; de Troie. Mais comme celle-ci repr&#233;sente El&#233;e qui se trouve en grande Gr&#232;ce, la sc&#232;ne se d&#233;roule &#224; la fois &#224; l'est et &#224; l'ouest d'Ath&#232;nes. La &#171; place &#187; que tient victorieusement l'arm&#233;e hom&#233;rique est donc multiple, &#233;clat&#233;e dans les temps (d'Hom&#232;re &#224; Protagoras) et dans les lieux (des quatre coins de la Gr&#232;ce). Ni l'ordre historique ni l'ordre g&#233;ographique n'organisent cette m&#234;l&#233;e dans laquelle espace et temps semblent confondus. Platon situe donc m&#233;taphoriquement le conflit dans une &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; proprement &#171; mythologique &#187; c'est-&#224;-dire d'avant H&#233;cat&#233;e, H&#233;rodote et Thucydide.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cette m&#233;taphore est riche d'enseignement car elle vaut comme illustration de ce qui est par ailleurs d&#233;clar&#233; sur les banni&#232;res. Ainsi lorsque les &#171; pluralistes/mobilistes &#187; pr&#233;supposent &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;, le lecteur est aussit&#244;t renvoy&#233; &#224; cette &#233;trange confusion dans laquelle Socrate place justement l'arm&#233;e hom&#233;rique par le moyen de l'image. La correspondance est coh&#233;rente. En effet, selon le principe d&#233;fendu par les &#171; pluralistes/mobilistes &#187;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; (comme toute chose) ne peut poss&#233;der aucune unit&#233; pas m&#234;me s&#233;mantique et en cons&#233;quence, ne d&#233;signe qu'une r&#233;alit&#233; confuse, qu'illustre &#233;loquemment le champ de bataille bross&#233; par Socrate, m&#234;l&#233;e des forces, des temps et des lieux. Parall&#232;lement, les &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187; r&#233;futent la multiplicit&#233; et le changement et n'accordent aucune r&#233;alit&#233; &#224; ce qui est nomm&#233; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;. Ce dernier point s'explique ais&#233;ment si l'on consid&#232;re la &#171; place &#187; m&#233;taphoriquement tenue par les &#171; Hom&#233;riques &#187; et qui est pr&#233;cis&#233;ment multiple donc sans r&#233;alit&#233; aux yeux des &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le proc&#233;d&#233; de Platon qui pr&#234;te &#224; Socrate un savant double jeu, entre le sens des propositions et leur mise en forme litt&#233;raire, implique deux interrogations. Premi&#232;rement, la r&#233;alit&#233; d&#233;not&#233;e par &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; peut &#234;tre mise en question : par ce mot, la langue commune viserait non point un espace clairement distingu&#233; mais une unit&#233; syncr&#233;tique fusionnant notamment les dimensions temporelle et spatiale. Mais deuxi&#232;mement, la mani&#232;re de dire la r&#233;alit&#233; est elle aussi en question. Car c'est l'art litt&#233;raire de Platon qui donne &#224; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; comme une patine archa&#239;que. Le lieu illustr&#233; par la m&#233;taphore est &#224; la fois une trouble r&#233;alit&#233; physique et une artificielle image rh&#233;torique, ce qui met ainsi en question le rapport entre la(les) r&#233;alit&#233;(s) et la(les) mani&#232;re(s) d'en parler.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;La critique des &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187; serait alors et en quelque sorte soutenue par l'exemple, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; restant dans le texte une notion probl&#233;matique qui ne peut &#234;tre abord&#233;e que par un incessant et implicite aller retour entre ce qui est dit et la mani&#232;re de le dire. Mais la pure et simple n&#233;gation de &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;, &#224; d&#233;faut de diacritique et sans solution alternative, est insuffisante et donc perdante, sur le plan des repr&#233;sentations. Les d&#233;fenseurs de l'&#171; El&#233;atisme &#187; seraient en effet contraints soit &#224; se retirer d'un conflit dont ils n'acceptent pas le terrain et &#224; &#234;tre ainsi r&#233;duits &#224; se taire, soit &#224; participer au combat et ce faisant, &#224; admettre d'&#234;tre situ&#233;s dans &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;. Platon pr&#233;sente ainsi la &#171; vulgate &#233;l&#233;atique &#187; comme vaincue en quelque sorte dans et par &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;, terme &#224; ce titre d&#233;cisif dans le conflit des repr&#233;sentations.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;3 Topos, soumis &#224; la critique.&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Les ex&#233;g&#232;tes contemporains ont longuement d&#233;battu pour savoir si &#171; l'un &#187; &#233;tait ou non le ma&#238;tre mot de la philosophie de Parm&#233;nide mais n'ont jamais demand&#233; ce qu'il en &#233;tait au sujet de &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;. Les fragments du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; permettent-ils de donner quelque r&#233;alit&#233; &#224; la m&#233;taphore de Socrate ?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le mot&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; kh&#244;ra &lt;/i&gt;n'y est jamais employ&#233;. Il existe par contre une occurrence de topos au vers 41 du fragment VIII. Faut-il consid&#233;rer qu'au V&#232;me si&#232;cle, les deux termes ont des sens diff&#233;rents ? La r&#233;ponse est n&#233;gative de l'avis unanime des critiques [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-10&quot; name=&quot;nh6-10&quot; id=&quot;nh6-10&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[10] Entre ces deux termes, &#233;crit Luc Brisson, &#171; la distinction n&amp;#39;existait (...)' &gt;10&lt;/a&gt;]. Ces deux mots d&#233;signeraient la situation relative o&#249; une chose se trouve comme le lieu particulier qu'elle occupe, topos renvoyant en g&#233;n&#233;ral &#224; un espace plus restreint que &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;. Tous les traducteurs du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; s'accordent ainsi &#224; donner &#224; topos un sens globalement spatial. Il est le plus souvent traduit en fran&#231;ais par &#171; lieu &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-11&quot; name=&quot;nh6-11&quot; id=&quot;nh6-11&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[11] COULOUBARITSIS, 1986 ; CASSIN, 1998 ; BOLLACK, 2006 ; CONCHE, 1996 ; (...)' &gt;11&lt;/a&gt;], parfois par &#171; place &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-12&quot; name=&quot;nh6-12&quot; id=&quot;nh6-12&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[12] CORDERO, 1984 ; O&amp;#39;BRIEN/FRERE, 1987. &#171;Place &#187; encore en anglais par (...)' &gt;12&lt;/a&gt;]. Aucun commentaire ne venant pr&#233;ciser ces traductions, elles rel&#232;veraient du sens commun et en r&#233;f&#232;reraient en cons&#233;quence &#224; une dimension d'espace assez floue et sans technicit&#233; particuli&#232;re.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Consid&#233;rons plus pr&#233;cis&#233;ment le vers VIII-41 pour d&#233;terminer s'il pr&#233;sente ou non quelque analogie avec la position critique pr&#234;t&#233;e par Socrate aux &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187; dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;. La D&#233;esse d&#233;clare que les mortels sont convaincus : &#171; de na&#238;tre et p&#233;rir, &#234;tre et ne pas &#234;tre, changer de lieu &lt;topos&gt; et varier d'intensit&#233; lumineuse &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-13&quot; name=&quot;nh6-13&quot; id=&quot;nh6-13&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[13] &#915;&#943;&#947;&#957;&#949;&#963;&#952;&#945;&#943; &#964;&#949; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#963;&#952;&#945;&#953;, &#949;&#7990;&#957;&#945;&#943; &#964;&#949; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#959;&#8016;&#967;&#943;, &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#964;&#972;&#960;&#959;&#957; &#7936;&#955;&#955;&#940;&#963;&#963;&#949;&#953;&#957; &#948;&#953;&#940; &#964;&#949; &#967;&#961;&#972;&#945; (...)' &gt;13&lt;/a&gt;].&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Comme dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, les opinions et les repr&#233;sentations dominantes transcrites dans la langue du mythe sont en question. Elles sont critiqu&#233;es par la D&#233;esse qui d&#233;clare en effet que les humains qui nomment les r&#233;alit&#233;s s'&#233;garent loin de la v&#233;rit&#233;. Cette errance a pu &#234;tre interpr&#233;t&#233;e de deux fa&#231;ons, soit les mortels ratent l'&#234;tre qu'ils visent en le nommant, soit ils se perdent dans le vide, donnant des noms sans aucune r&#233;alit&#233; r&#233;f&#233;rentielle [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-14&quot; name=&quot;nh6-14&quot; id=&quot;nh6-14&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[14] Dans l&amp;#39;interpr&#233;tation la plus fr&#233;quente, comme par exemple celle de Denis (...)' &gt;14&lt;/a&gt;]. La critique de la D&#233;esse s'exerce clairement &#224; l'encontre de tous les noms et en particulier contre ceux des vers 40 et 41. En cons&#233;quence soit le sens de topos &#233;chappe aux humains, soit le mot lui-m&#234;me est absurde et vide de toute signification. Dans tous les cas, topos est fl&#233;tri par la critique de Parm&#233;nide, tout comme l'est &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; par les &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187; dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Le changement est le th&#232;me principal du vers en question. Deux verbes l'expriment : &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#7936;&#955;&#955;&#940;&#963;&#963;&#949;&#953;&#957; &lt;/i&gt;et &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#7936;&#956;&#949;&#943;&#946;&#949;&#953;&#957;&lt;/i&gt; qui signifient &#171; changer &#187; et &#171; &#233;changer &#187; dans le sens de &#171; remplacer &#187; ou &#171; succ&#233;der &#187;. Dans la formule de la Divinit&#233;, il peut y avoir alt&#233;ration (le lieu change) comme d&#233;placement (changer d'un lieu pour un autre). Ces changements dans l'espace sont reli&#233;s aux variations lumineuses. Parall&#232;lement, entre &#171; na&#238;tre&#187; et &#171; p&#233;rir &#187;, &#171; &#234;tre &#187; et &#171; ne pas &#234;tre &#187;, il y a encore &#171; changement &#187; et &#171; &#233;change &#187; d'un terme positif &#224; son contraire. Vivre serait ainsi selon les mortels : changer de lieu, dans des lieux eux-m&#234;mes changeant, passer du sein maternel &#224; la lumi&#232;re du jour puis de celle-ci &#224; la p&#233;nombre de l'Had&#232;s, transiter du n&#233;ant &#224; l'&#234;tre et inversement de l'&#234;tre au n&#233;ant. Dans le vers VIII-41 du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt;, topos est donc associ&#233; &#233;troitement au changement sous de multiples formes, comme l'est &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Les deux vers sont en leur forme marqu&#233;s par un jeu d'assonances, de sym&#233;trie et de balancement &#224; l'int&#233;rieur de chacun d'eux comme dans leur ensemble. Ces effets rh&#233;toriques ajoutent au trouble conceptuel d&#233;nonc&#233; par la D&#233;esse. Ainsi comme dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, c'est entre la r&#233;alit&#233; et la fa&#231;on dont on peut la d&#233;crire que se noue le probl&#232;me des mortels.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Notons enfin que dans ces multiples variations, le temps est toujours occult&#233; tout en &#233;tant impliqu&#233; ; temps saisonnier qui fait varier la luminosit&#233; et les lieux, temps m&#233;t&#233;orologique qui modifie tout l'environnement &#224; un moment donn&#233;, temps enfin, n&#233;cessaire de mani&#232;re g&#233;n&#233;rale &#224; tout changement. Remarquons que le temps grec est mesur&#233; tr&#232;s concr&#232;tement par le cadran solaire et le gnomon. Il est ainsi constat&#233; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;de visu&lt;/i&gt; et &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;in situ&lt;/i&gt; sur une surface &#233;clair&#233;e. Dans ce dispositif, dominent lieu et lumi&#232;re. Le vers 41 en r&#233;f&#232;rerait ainsi indirectement &#224; cette d&#233;termination particuli&#232;re du temps.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;La D&#233;esse critique donc &#171; topos &#187; qui comme le mot &#171; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; &#187; renvoie globalement pour l'opinion grecque &#224; la localisation des choses. Elle l'associe &#233;troitement &#224; la notion de changement, tout en le dotant d'une dimension temporelle implicite mais d&#233;terminante. Elle fait enfin entendre qu'il existe de fait un rapport entre la r&#233;alit&#233; que l'on vise et la fa&#231;on dont on en parle. Sur tous ces points, Platon dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; semble avoir assez scrupuleusement retenu la lettre et l'esprit du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt;. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; ni&#233;e par les &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187; est s&#339;ur jumelle de topos disqualifi&#233; dans l'&#339;uvre du philosophe d'El&#233;e.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;L'importance de cette critique aux yeux de Platon peut &#234;tre compl&#232;tement confirm&#233;e en examinant les lignes 172c2-177c6 qui forment le passage central de la premi&#232;re partie du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt; dans laquelle Socrate pr&#233;sente &#171; la Guerre d'El&#233;e &#187;. Le philosophe y abandonne temporairement le r&#233;cit &#233;pique pour pr&#233;senter deux paradigmes antagonistes qui illustrent deux types d'homme, d'une part le rh&#233;teur tourn&#233; vers l'enqu&#234;te judiciaire et d'autre part le physicien tourn&#233; vers l'examen du cosmos. Socrate fait ensuite valoir sa propre dynamique, celle de l'am&#233;lioration de soi, qui implique une orientation particuli&#232;re vers la recherche du juste par l'imitation du divin. Dans tout ce passage, le mot &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; n'est pas employ&#233;. Mais le philosophe d&#233;clare vouloir fuir &#171; le lieu &lt;topos&gt; d'ici &#187; dans lequel le mal parcourt fatalement sa ronde (176a6-7). La critique de Parm&#233;nide aurait donc port&#233; ; Platon semble ici l'enregistrer presque litt&#233;ralement en lui donnant toutefois la saveur particuli&#232;re qui est celle de la philosophie socratique. Qu'est ce en effet que le &#171; lieu d'ici &#187; ? Il est li&#233; &#224; la nature mortelle et localise la sarabande des maux. Dans les versions fran&#231;aises, il est traduit par &#171; lieu d'ici-bas &#187; ou &#171; cette terre &#187; ou encore &#171; ce lieu-ci &#187; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-15&quot; name=&quot;nh6-15&quot; id=&quot;nh6-15&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[15] Successivement : DIES, 1926 ; CHAMBRY, 1967 ; NARCY, 1994.' &gt;15&lt;/a&gt;]. Il renvoie ainsi &#224; une r&#233;alit&#233; spatiale tr&#232;s g&#233;n&#233;rale, l&#224; o&#249; se trouve l'humaine nature et de ce point de vue en r&#233;f&#232;re directement au mot topos critiqu&#233; par la D&#233;esse du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt;. Socrate cherche &#224; s'en &#233;vader (176a-b). Or la D&#233;esse ordonnait &#224; Parm&#233;nide de s'&#233;carter du chemin qui est celui de l'opinion des mortels [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-16&quot; name=&quot;nh6-16&quot; id=&quot;nh6-16&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[16] Po&#232;me 27-28, I et 3-5, VI.' &gt;16&lt;/a&gt;]. L'injonction &#233;tait imp&#233;rieuse. Le point de vue de Socrate n'est pas aussi autoritaire. Mais sur le fond, le philosophe d'Ath&#232;nes ob&#233;it scrupuleusement &#224; la consigne de la Divinit&#233;. Comme Parm&#233;nide, le Socrate de Platon se d&#233;tourne donc de topos.	Mais il ajoute aussit&#244;t chercher un &#171; lieu &lt;topos&gt; pur de tout mal &#187; qui semble comme au del&#224; de la mort (177a5). Voil&#224; qui d&#233;passe de beaucoup la critique de Parm&#233;nide mais qui est par contre pr&#233;cis&#233;ment inscrit dans la dynamique socratique du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;. En effet comme on l'a pr&#233;c&#233;demment constat&#233;, en niant &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;, sans proposer d'alternative, les &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187; seraient enferm&#233;s dans le cercle de la m&#233;taphore guerri&#232;re. Pour sortir de cette impasse, il faut d&#233;gager positivement une nouvelle perspective. C'est peut-&#234;tre ce qu'ont pu faire les physiciens et les rh&#233;teurs en proposant des fa&#231;ons particuli&#232;res et nouvelles d'appr&#233;hender le lieu, cosmologique et math&#233;matique dans le premier cas, rh&#233;torique et oratoire dans le second. Le fait est certain pour Isocrate qui emploie &#224; plusieurs reprises dans ses discours, le mot topos dans le sens de &#171; th&#232;me &#187; ou de &#171; sujet &#187;, signification fort &#233;loign&#233;e de la confusion spatiotemporelle de &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb6-17&quot; name=&quot;nh6-17&quot; id=&quot;nh6-17&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[17] Jacques Brunschwig, dans son introduction aux Topiques, relevait (...)' &gt;17&lt;/a&gt;]. Mais de ces &#233;volutions, Platon ne dit rien explicitement. Il met par contre en valeur la figure de Socrate dont Isocrate fut justement l'&#233;l&#232;ve. Le philosophe ath&#233;nien semble ainsi d&#233;passer d'un m&#234;me envol, d'une part les &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187;, en outrepassant la critique du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; contre topos, et d'autre part les mod&#232;les du rh&#233;teur et du physicien qu'il pose comme deux paradigmes relatifs. Au del&#224; de Parm&#233;nide, Socrate cherche un lieu, et ce lieu dit &#171; pur de tout mal &#187; est comme au del&#224; des r&#233;flexions du rh&#233;teur et du physicien, peut-&#234;tre parce que ceux-ci s'ignorant l'un, l'autre, ne peuvent jamais donner sur la r&#233;alit&#233; qu'un point de vue borgne, le lieu &#233;tant pour l'un rh&#233;torique, pour l'autre, physique.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tous ces &#233;l&#233;ments confirment l'importance accord&#233;e par Platon &#224; la critique parm&#233;nidienne. Elle a &#233;t&#233; positivement prise en compte en son implication majeure : le rejet de la confuse entit&#233; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt;/topos qu'exprime Socrate lorsqu'il d&#233;sire s'&#233;vader hors de &#171; ce lieu ci &#187;. Mais la critique de Parm&#233;nide a &#233;t&#233; aussi d&#233;pass&#233;e, le philosophe ath&#233;nien cherchant un &#171; lieu pur de tout mal &#187; qui serait &#224; ce titre d&#233;barrass&#233; de toute confusion et de tout conflit.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dans la premi&#232;re partie du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, Platon reprend donc &#224; son compte des classifications philosophiques d&#233;j&#224; &#233;tablies dont on conna&#238;t des exemples par Isocrate. Mais il simplifie et m&#233;taphorise ce classement sous la forme d'un duel &#233;pique : &#171; Hom&#233;riques &#187; contre &#171; El&#233;atiques &#187;. La classification est ainsi polaris&#233;e autour de Parm&#233;nide. Cette mise en image de la doxographie permet de mettre en question le &#171; lieu &#187;. Car les d&#233;fenseurs de &#171; l'El&#233;atisme &#187; font directement &#233;cho &#224; la critique que Parm&#233;nide prononce contre topos dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt;, en contestant explicitement &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; admise par leurs opposants et Platon donne un relief particulier &#224; cette contestation en situant m&#233;taphoriquement le d&#233;bat aux portes d'une citadelle troyenne-&#233;l&#233;ate. Cette image litt&#233;raire fabriqu&#233;e de toutes pi&#232;ces peut renvoyer &#224; une confusion des temps et des espaces, r&#233;elle ou pr&#233;suppos&#233;e, et d&#233;signe &#224; la fois le lieu strat&#233;gique, site du duel, et le lieu rh&#233;torique, sujet de la discussion. Mais l'art de la parole, ainsi requis pour pr&#233;senter la complexit&#233; des divers probl&#232;mes pos&#233;s par le &#171; lieu &#187; qu'il soit appel&#233; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kh&#244;ra&lt;/i&gt; ou topos, serait, pour les r&#233;soudre, insuffisant. En derni&#232;re instance seul le philosophe Socrate ouvre une perspective positive, au del&#224; du conflit des repr&#233;sentations, vers un topos dit &#171; pur de tout mal &#187;.
Platon a donc sollicit&#233; les savants moyens du rh&#233;teur pour faire du &#171; lieu &#187; sous ses multiples aspects, le sujet du d&#233;bat c'est-&#224;-dire, selon les propres termes d'Isocrate, le &#171; lieu &#187; du d&#233;bat. Ainsi le &#171; lieu &#187; de la Guerre d'El&#233;e, est justement le &#171; lieu &#187;, enjeu du conflit. De cette &#233;trange dialectique, seul Socrate aurait pu finalement d&#233;m&#234;ler l'&#233;cheveau.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;hr /&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_notes'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-1&quot; name=&quot;nb6-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-1&quot;&gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] Voir en particulier BARNES, 1979.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-2&quot; name=&quot;nb6-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-2&quot;&gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] MANSFELD, 1990.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-3&quot; name=&quot;nb6-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-3&quot;&gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] CORDERO, 1991.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-4&quot; name=&quot;nb6-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-4&quot;&gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] MANSFELD, 1990, p : 26.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-5&quot; name=&quot;nb6-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-5&quot;&gt;5&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sur l'&#233;change&lt;/i&gt;, 268.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-6&quot; name=&quot;nb6-6&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-6&quot;&gt;6&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Eloge d'H&#233;l&#232;ne&lt;/i&gt;, 3.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-7&quot; name=&quot;nb6-7&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-7&quot;&gt;7&lt;/a&gt;] Entre 152e et 183e.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-8&quot; name=&quot;nb6-8&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-8&quot;&gt;8&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Eloge d'H&#233;l&#232;ne&lt;/i&gt;, 4.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-9&quot; name=&quot;nb6-9&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-9&quot;&gt;9&lt;/a&gt;] Voir en particulier Isocrate : &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Pan&#233;gyrique&lt;/i&gt;, 81-84, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Eloge d'H&#233;l&#232;ne&lt;/i&gt;, 67.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-10&quot; name=&quot;nb6-10&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-10&quot;&gt;10&lt;/a&gt;] Entre ces deux termes, &#233;crit Luc Brisson, &#171; la distinction n'existait pas, du moins pas &#224; un autre niveau qu'&#224; celui, plein d'impr&#233;cision du vocabulaire quotidien &#187; (BRISSON, 1974, p : 213).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-11&quot; name=&quot;nb6-11&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-11&quot;&gt;11&lt;/a&gt;] COULOUBARITSIS, 1986 ; CASSIN, 1998 ; BOLLACK, 2006 ; CONCHE, 1996 ; BEAUFFRET, 1955.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-12&quot; name=&quot;nb6-12&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-12&quot;&gt;12&lt;/a&gt;] CORDERO, 1984 ; O'BRIEN/FRERE, 1987. &#171;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Place&lt;/i&gt; &#187; encore en anglais par exemple pour COXON, 2009 et GALLOP, 1984.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-13&quot; name=&quot;nb6-13&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-13&quot;&gt;13&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#915;&#943;&#947;&#957;&#949;&#963;&#952;&#945;&#943; &#964;&#949; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#8004;&#955;&#955;&#965;&#963;&#952;&#945;&#953;, &#949;&#7990;&#957;&#945;&#943; &#964;&#949; &#954;&#945;&#8054; &#959;&#8016;&#967;&#943;&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#954;&#945;&#8054; &#964;&#972;&#960;&#959;&#957; &#7936;&#955;&#955;&#940;&#963;&#963;&#949;&#953;&#957; &#948;&#953;&#940; &#964;&#949; &#967;&#961;&#972;&#945; &#966;&#945;&#957;&#8056;&#957; &#7936;&#956;&#949;&#943;&#946;&#949;&#953;&#957;.&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-14&quot; name=&quot;nb6-14&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-14&quot;&gt;14&lt;/a&gt;] Dans l'interpr&#233;tation la plus fr&#233;quente, comme par exemple celle de Denis O'Brien et de Jean Fr&#232;re, la d&#233;nomination humaine est vide de sens. Mais &#224; partir de l'analyse d'une citation du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; tir&#233;e du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, Monique Dixsaut a propos&#233; une lecture alternative : la d&#233;nomination des mortels vise la r&#233;alit&#233; mais la manque. Le nom n'est pas compl&#232;tement vide, il d&#233;signe quelque chose. Mais il demeure cependant insens&#233;, la chose &#233;tant comprise de fa&#231;on ambigu&#235; (O'BRIEN/FRERE, 1987 ; DIXSAUT, 1987).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-15&quot; name=&quot;nb6-15&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-15&quot;&gt;15&lt;/a&gt;] Successivement : DIES, 1926 ; CHAMBRY, 1967 ; NARCY, 1994.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-16&quot; name=&quot;nb6-16&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-16&quot;&gt;16&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt; 27-28, I et 3-5, VI.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh6-17&quot; name=&quot;nb6-17&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 6-17&quot;&gt;17&lt;/a&gt;] Jacques Brunschwig, dans son introduction aux &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Topiques&lt;/i&gt;, relevait qu'avant Aristote seul Isocrate avait employ&#233; topos dans le sens &#171; de &#171; th&#232;me &#187; ou de &#171; sujet &#187; (cf. l'anglais &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;topics&lt;/i&gt;) donnant &#224; un d&#233;veloppement oratoire sa ligne directrice &#187; (BRUNSCHWIG, 1967). Voir : &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phillipe&lt;/i&gt;,109 ; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Panath&#233;na&#239;que&lt;/i&gt;, 88 et 111 ; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Eloge d'H&#233;l&#232;ne&lt;/i&gt;, 4 et 38.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_ps'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ISOCRATE , &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Discours&lt;/i&gt;, &#233;tabli et traduit par Georges MATHIEU et Emile BREMOND, Belles Lettres, Paris, 1929.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;PLATON, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, &#233;tabli et traduit par Auguste DIES, Belles Lettres, Paris, 1926. &lt;br \&gt;&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;BARNES J., 1979, &#171; Parmenides and the Eleatic One &#187;, p :1-21, Archiv f&#252;r Geschichte der Philosophie, N&#176;61.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;BEAUFFRET J., 1996, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Parm&#233;nide, le Po&#232;me&lt;/i&gt;, P.U.F., Paris (premi&#232;re &#233;dition 1955).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;BOLLACK J., 2006, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;De l'&#233;tant au monde&lt;/i&gt;, Verdier, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;BRISSON L., 1974, Le m&#234;me et l'autre dans la structure ontologique du Tim&#233;e de Platon, Klincksieck, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;BRUNSCHWIG J., 1967, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Topiques&lt;/i&gt; d'Aristote, Belles Lettres, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;BURNYEAT M., 1990, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The Theaetetus of Plato&lt;/i&gt;, with a translation of Plato's Theaetetus by M.J. LEVETT revised by Myles BURNYEAT, Hackett Publishing Company, Indianapolis/Cambridge.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CASSIN B., 1998, Parm&#233;nide. Sur la nature ou sur l'&#233;tant, Seuil, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CHAMBRY E., 1967, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platon, Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, Flammarion, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CONCHE M., 1996, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Parm&#233;nide, le Po&#232;me : fragments&lt;/i&gt;, P.U.F., Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;COULOUBARITSIS L., 1990, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Mythe et philosophie chez Parm&#233;nide&lt;/i&gt;, Ousia, Bruxelles (premi&#232;re &#233;dition 1986).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CORDERO N., 1997, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Les deux chemins de Parm&#233;nide&lt;/i&gt;, Vrin/Ousia, Paris/Bruxelles (premi&#232;re &#233;dition 1984).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CORDERO N., 1991, &#171; L'invention de l'&#233;cole &#233;l&#233;atique, Platon &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophiste&lt;/i&gt; 242d &#187;, p :93-124, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Etudes sur le Sophiste de Platon&lt;/i&gt;, sous la direction de Pierre AUBENQUE, Bibliopolis, Napoli.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;COXON A.H., 2009, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The Fragments of Parmenides&lt;/i&gt;, revised and expanded edition, new translations by R. McKIRAHAN and a new preface by M. SCHOFIELD, Parmenides Publishing, Las Vegas/Zurich/Athens.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;DIXSAUT M., 1987, &#171; Platon et le logos de Parm&#233;nide &#187;, p : 215-253, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Etudes sur Parm&#233;nide&lt;/i&gt;, sous la direction de Pierre AUBENQUE, Vrin, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;GALLOP D., 1984, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Parmenides of Elea&lt;/i&gt;, University of Toronto, Toronto.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;MANSFELD J., 1990, &#171; Aristotle, Plato, and Preplatonic Doxography and Chronography &#187;, p : 22-83, Studies in the Historiography of Greek Philosophy , Van Gorcum, Maastricht, (premi&#232;re parution de l'article 1986).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;NARCY M., 1994, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platon, Th&#233;&#233;t&#232;te&lt;/i&gt;, Flammarion, Paris.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;O'BRIEN D. et FRERE J., 1987, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Etudes sur Parm&#233;nide&lt;/i&gt;, tome I, sous la direction de Pierre AUBENQUE, Vrin, Paris.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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		<title>6. Virtue, Practice, and Perplexity in Plato's Meno</title>
		<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article117</link>
		<guid isPermaLink="true">http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article117</guid>
		<dc:date>2013-03-24T11:06:12Z</dc:date>
		<dc:format>text/html</dc:format>
		<dc:language>en</dc:language>
		<dc:creator>WIANS, William</dc:creator>



		<description>Plato's Meno presents a deceptively simple surface. Plato begins by having his character Meno ask Socrates how virtue is acquired. Instead of having Socrates respond directly, Plato has him divert the conversation to the question of what virtue is. But Plato's Meno isn't accustomed to the rigors of Socratic inquiry, and so Plato allows him to force the discussion back toward a version of his original question. After a series of false starts and frustrations, Plato ends his dialogue with (&amp;hellip;)

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&lt;a href="http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?rubrique13" rel="directory"&gt;12. Plato 12 (2012)&lt;/a&gt;


		</description>


 <content:encoded>&lt;div class='rss_texte'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; presents a deceptively simple surface. Plato begins by having his character Meno ask Socrates how virtue is acquired. Instead of having Socrates respond directly, Plato has him divert the conversation to the question of what virtue is. But Plato's Meno isn't accustomed to the rigors of Socratic inquiry, and so Plato allows him to force the discussion back toward a version of his original question. After a series of false starts and frustrations, Plato ends his dialogue with his characters unable to define virtue or to supply a persuasive answer as to how it is acquired.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; has been called a perfect example of the essential points of Platonism. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-1&quot; name=&quot;nh7-1&quot; id=&quot;nh7-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[1] &#8220;In the Meno . . . more that is characteristic of Plato is brought (...)' &gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] If the dialogue is characteristic of Plato, however, it has as much to do with what it &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;shows&lt;/i&gt; the reader about virtue as with what it &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;tells&lt;/i&gt;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-2&quot; name=&quot;nh7-2&quot; id=&quot;nh7-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[2] As Klein puts it &#8220;answers can be given in a written text by the very (...)' &gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] Though the aggressively confident Meno certainly ends unable to define virtue, and Plato's Socrates is often said to do so, I shall argue that Plato is in no doubt as to what virtue is or the means by which virtue is acquired. I shall organize my argument around what we find in two key passages&#8212;and crucially, what we find missing. In them, Plato provides clues to the meaning of the whole, connecting the perplexity of the dialogue's two main characters with the most promising route toward the acquisition of virtue, a route that is surprisingly neglected over the course of the dialogue.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;I shall also work to keep the authorial dimension in view. That is, rather than saying simply that Socrates says this or Meno says that, I shall emphasize that it is Plato who makes Socrates and Meno say what he, the author, wants to have said and be left unsaid at each point. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-3&quot; name=&quot;nh7-3&quot; id=&quot;nh7-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[3] A point put bluntly by Kahn: Socrates is both &#8220;Plato&amp;#39;s historical master (...)' &gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] While the importance of the literary and dramatic aspects of Plato's philosophical dramas is now often noted, too many commentators persist in speaking of what Socrates and his interlocutors want, intend, or are feeling, rather than confining themselves to what Plato has them say. In doing so, they obscure the critical distance between an author and his creation and risk turning a carefully plotted philosophical dialogue into a psychological study of its characters. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-4&quot; name=&quot;nh7-4&quot; id=&quot;nh7-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[4] Penner expresses precisely the essential literary quality of the (...)' &gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] Plato uses the dramatic structure of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; ultimately not to support but actually to counter the apparent failure of his characters, pointing the reader in the right direction even as he has Socrates' headstrong companion insist on pursuing the wrong way.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;1.&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato begins the dialogue abruptly:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;MENO: Can you tell me, Socrates, whether virtue (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;&lt;/i&gt;) is something teachable (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;didakton&lt;/i&gt;)? Or is it not teachable, but something acquired through practice (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;ton&lt;/i&gt;)? Or is it neither acquired through practice nor something learned (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;math&#234;ton&lt;/i&gt;), but comes to be present (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;paragignetai&lt;/i&gt;) in human beings by nature (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;phusei&lt;/i&gt;), or in some other way? (70a1-4) [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-5&quot; name=&quot;nh7-5&quot; id=&quot;nh7-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[5] Translations are my own, made with an eye on those of Robert Sharples, (...)' &gt;5&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno &lt;/i&gt;begins without the brilliant scene setting of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Protagoras &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt; or even the more prosaic prelude of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthydemus&lt;/i&gt;, dialogues typically dated close to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-6&quot; name=&quot;nh7-6&quot; id=&quot;nh7-6&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[6] Explanations for the Meno&amp;#39;s abrupt opening are offered by Dominic Scott, (...)' &gt;6&lt;/a&gt;] Plato has Meno ask how a person acquires or comes to possess &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;&lt;/i&gt;, virtue or excellence. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-7&quot; name=&quot;nh7-7&quot; id=&quot;nh7-7&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[7] Translating aret&#234; into English is a standing problem. The two most (...)' &gt;7&lt;/a&gt;] He is made to name three possibilities, with a fourth alternative amounting to &#8220;none of the above&#8221; leaving room for the suggestion at the end of the dialogue that virtue is a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;theia moira&lt;/i&gt;, a divine allotment or &#8220;gift of the gods.&#8221;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The options would be familiar to Plato's audience. From the arrival of the Sophists in the mid-fifth century, the question of how &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;&lt;/i&gt; could be acquired was part of the current debate, as was the question of what &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;&lt;/i&gt; itself was. Sophists often claimed to be able to teach the virtue or excellence necessary to succeed in the public or political sphere and so made its acquisition an urgent need for ambitious young men. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-8&quot; name=&quot;nh7-8&quot; id=&quot;nh7-8&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[8] Plato&amp;#39;s Protagoras promises to do precisely that at Protagoras (...)' &gt;8&lt;/a&gt;] The question was equally urgent for the founder of the Academy, as its prominence not just in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; but in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Protagoras&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laches&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthydemus&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt;, and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; indicates. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-9&quot; name=&quot;nh7-9&quot; id=&quot;nh7-9&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[9] For surveys of the historical situation, see Tarrant, Recollecting, (...)' &gt;9&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Despite the intense interest surrounding the question of how virtue could be acquired, Plato's attention to the four options over the course of the dialogue is decidedly uneven. The dialogue concentrates on the first possibility, that virtue is teachable, almost to the exclusion of the others&#8212;so much so that many commentators speak as if &#8220;Is virtue teachable?&#8221; is the only question Meno asks. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-10&quot; name=&quot;nh7-10&quot; id=&quot;nh7-10&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[10] This tendency is very widespread. Among those cited elsewhere in this (...)' &gt;10&lt;/a&gt;] The third option, that virtue is a natural endowment, surfaces briefly in the second half of the dialogue but is quickly dismissed (89a6-b7). The possibility that virtue is a gift of the gods is raised only at the dialogue's end. The second option, that virtue is acquired through practice (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;sis&lt;/i&gt;), is simply not considered. It is raised in the opening lines, never to be mentioned again.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The neglect of practice by so careful a writer is surprising. When Aristotle opens the second book of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Nicomachean Ethics&lt;/i&gt; with essentially the same list of possibilities (1103a14-26), he says that moral virtue is acquired (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;periginetai&lt;/i&gt;) through the formation of proper habits. Aristotle uses the term &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ethos&lt;/i&gt; and not &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;sis&lt;/i&gt; in this passage; however, he uses &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;sis&lt;/i&gt; in the Meno-like list of options by which one might attain happiness at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;NE&lt;/i&gt; I 9, 1099b9-11, and identifies &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;sis&lt;/i&gt; with habituation at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;EE&lt;/i&gt; I 1, 1214a15-22. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-11&quot; name=&quot;nh7-11&quot; id=&quot;nh7-11&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[11] See also NE X 9, 1179b20-23.' &gt;11&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;At least twice in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, Plato passes over opportunities to raise the option of acquiring virtue by practice. Following the conclusion of the geometry lesson, Plato has Meno ask Socrates to return to his original question of how virtue is acquired. But the only possibilities Plato has Meno name are those of teaching and by nature (86c7-d2). Then at the dialogue's end, Plato has Socrates suggest and the by now compliant Meno agree that virtue is a gift of the gods. But again, teaching and by nature are the only other options named by Plato's characters. The possibility of acquiring virtue through practice seems entirely forgotten. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-12&quot; name=&quot;nh7-12&quot; id=&quot;nh7-12&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[12] In at least one other passage practice could easily have been (...)' &gt;12&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Scholars have sought to account for the absence of an explicit discussion of practice in a variety of ways. Bluck and Sharples, less and more tentatively respectively, find an implicit rejection of practice in the criticisms of virtue as teachable in the second half of the dialogue. Casteln&#233;rac finds &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;sis&lt;/i&gt; implicit in Socratic practices in the geometry lesson. Gonzalez and Hoerber (the latter using elaborate and sometimes obscure parallels between the three options and the structure of the dialogue as a whole) argue that Plato embraces all three. DesJardins finds senses in which all four options, including the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;theia moira&lt;/i&gt;, are implicitly endorsed as necessary for virtue's acquisition. Klein connects the omission of practice to flaws in Meno's character, but does not develop the connection systematically over the whole dialogue. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-13&quot; name=&quot;nh7-13&quot; id=&quot;nh7-13&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[13] Bluck, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 202-03 (&#8220;an explicit rejection of [practice] might (...)' &gt;13&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Some scholars point to passages in other dialogues where Plato links practice or habit with an inferior kind of virtue. This is a demotic virtue practiced &#8220;without philosophy&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ethei aneu philosophias aret&#234;s&lt;/i&gt;; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep&lt;/i&gt;. 619c7-d1), or &#8220;without philosophy or understanding&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aneu philosophias te kai nou&lt;/i&gt;; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phd&lt;/i&gt;. 82a11-b3; see also 68d2-69d3; 82b10-c8). Perhaps, it has been suggested, it was this sham virtue that Plato had in mind when he quietly dropped &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;sis&lt;/i&gt; from consideration in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-14&quot; name=&quot;nh7-14&quot; id=&quot;nh7-14&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[14] This is essentially the position of Taylor, Plato, 131 and 144-145. (...)' &gt;14&lt;/a&gt;] Indeed, we shall discover that a similar deficiency of acting &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aneu nou&lt;/i&gt; figures in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The most recent and also the most radical solution is Dominic Scott's. Calling it a mystery that after the opening lines practice &#8220;is never mentioned again in the dialogue either to be developed or dismissed,&#8221;&lt;strong class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; &lt;/strong&gt;Scott points to a manuscript (known as &#8216;F') in which only the first and third options (plus &#8220;none of the above&#8221;) are included to argue that acquiring virtue through practice may never have been part of Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; as originally written. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-15&quot; name=&quot;nh7-15&quot; id=&quot;nh7-15&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[15] Scott, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 16-18. Scott finds some additional support for (...)' &gt;15&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The absence of practice in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; is indeed a puzzle. I shall argue that for reasons having everything to do with the point of the dialogue Plato allows his interlocutors to pass over the second option even at the cost of having his characters' inquiry fail. I shall proceed as follows. I will begin by working to clarify the differences between the four alternatives for acquiring virtue. I'll then turn to the dialogue's concluding speeches and the second of the two passages where the omission of practice is most conspicuous. Finally, I'll return to earlier parts of the dialogue in which Plato prepares for the failure of his characters. Making a case for an option that seems to have been forgotten will require a good deal of attention to several extended passages from the dialogue. But doing so will reveal a carefully plotted presentation that points the reader toward a true understanding of virtue and the sort of practice needed to acquire it.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;2.&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno has been criticized for presenting his opening options as if they were mutually exclusive. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-16&quot; name=&quot;nh7-16&quot; id=&quot;nh7-16&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[16] Scott, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 16 and 17n22; Daniel Devereux, &#8220;Nature and Teaching (...)' &gt;16&lt;/a&gt;] Why Plato may have made him do so requires a closer look at the four alternatives eventually canvassed in the dialogue&#8212;Meno's original triad plus Socrates' concluding suggestion that virtue is a gift of the gods.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;We may begin by observing that the four possible ways of acquiring virtue form a mutually exhaustive set of possibilities. At the broadest level, either one must work to acquire virtue, or no work is required. If no work is needed, then virtue is present in those who possess it either naturally (as Pindar might say, pointing to a patron's aristocratic origins), or supernaturally, as a gift from the gods. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-17&quot; name=&quot;nh7-17&quot; id=&quot;nh7-17&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[17] See also Protag. 323c. Both Scott, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 158, and Weiss, Cave, (...)' &gt;17&lt;/a&gt;] Something arising naturally or supernaturally requires neither instruction nor practice. Examples not involving virtue can show why. A person born with normal color vision does not need to be told how to see red, and all the practice in the world won't make a person see red if she or he is born colorblind. Similarly, a supernatural gift such as clairvoyance is not (given an historical example such as Joan of Arc) something that is taught or trained, and might even be impaired by outside influences.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning to the other broad division, if virtue is something requiring effort to acquire, then (Meno's opening questions imply) one does so either by verbal instruction or by practice. If a subject is teachable, all the information essential to learning it can be conveyed by direct verbal means, as by a teacher to a student, whether by means of lectures or by some other form of instruction. Mathematical subjects provide a ready example (Socrates' exercise with the slave not withstanding; we shall consider it below). The teacher of geometry, for instance, can state explicitly all of the information a student needs to know: &#8220;Listen: I am about to define point, line, and plane&#8221;; or &#8220;Listen: I am about to state what is known as the Parallel Postulate.&#8221; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-18&quot; name=&quot;nh7-18&quot; id=&quot;nh7-18&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[18] At Gorg. 450c7-e1, Plato has Socrates divide &#8220;all the crafts&#8221; into two (...)' &gt;18&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Finally, if virtue is acquired by some sort of practice, then verbal instruction alone is not sufficient. Skills like carpentry or the ability to play the piano (Aristotle uses cithara playing as his example in &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;NE&lt;/i&gt; II 1) cannot be acquired simply by reading a book or hearing a lecture. Here a certain amount of verbal instruction may be helpful or necessary (&#8220;This is a scroll saw. Use it for making irregular cuts&#8221; or &#8220;This white key is called middle C. Position yourself in front of it&#8221;). But such instruction must be supplemented by the learner's doing the very things that the expert can do&#8212;actually making a scroll cut or playing a cithera or sonata. Something acquired through practice cannot be finally or fully achieved without engaging in appropriate forms of action or behavior that necessarily go beyond the verbal.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;This last point is crucial. The verb &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;askeo&lt;/i&gt; implies practices by which one forms oneself, as through the formation of the proper habits. Similarly, Meno's term &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;ton&lt;/i&gt; implies that which is fully achieved or mastered through practice. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-19&quot; name=&quot;nh7-19&quot; id=&quot;nh7-19&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[19] For the sense of ask&#234;ton, see Bluck, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 203.' &gt;19&lt;/a&gt;] In a parallel vein, the verb &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;paragignomai&lt;/i&gt; conveys the sense of being fully present or attained, or coming to full maturity, as with grain. Plato therefore intends Meno's question to be taken to ask for the sufficient condition by which &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;&lt;/i&gt; is fully and finally achieved, as opposed to asking for a list of necessary factors that may contribute in various degrees to its acquisition. This would help to explain why Plato has Meno imply that the options are mutually exclusive.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Given that there may be more than one necessary condition for something's attainment, it isn't surprising that there is often some overlap between instruction and practice: the piano teacher will want to make verbal comments, and the geometry student must do the homework. Nor would one want to deny that the &#8220;by nature&#8221; plays an important role in learning as well&#8212;one child has a natural aptitude for mathematics, another for music, and another for soccer or baseball. Nevertheless, there is an essential difference between what is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;didakton&lt;/i&gt; and what is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;ton&lt;/i&gt;. The geometry teacher can simply point and say, &#8220;Look: you drew the wrong angle,&#8221; or &#8220;Look: you wrote the wrong expression.&#8221; The piano teacher, by contrast, must say both more and less: &#8220;Look: you keep missing that grace note. Try holding your wrist at a different angle,&#8221; or &#8220;Look: Beethoven wrote &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;molto cantabile&lt;/i&gt;. Try playing with more expression.&#8221; The geometry teacher can say exactly what the correct angle or expression is, the piano teacher cannot. The piano student must learn for herself what it is by practicing. This implies two further points we shall consider in due course. First, the kind of practice that is necessary is in no way mindless. Second, everything that can be taught can be learned, but not everything that can be learned can be taught.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;If all of this is correct, then the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;'s four options form a mutually exhaustive logical tree:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&lt;span class='spip_document_143 spip_documents spip_documents_center' &gt;
&lt;img src='http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/IMG/png/WiansLogicaltree.png' width='520' height='358' alt=&quot;WiansLogicaltree&quot; title=&quot;WiansLogicaltree&quot; style='height:358px;width:520px;' class=' format_png' /&gt;&lt;/span&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The distinction between teaching as verbal instruction and practice as essentially requiring mindful action beyond the verbal goes to the heart of whether virtue is teachable and raises larger questions of Socratic method and the precise nature of what is often called Socratic intellectualism. Pursuing these larger implications exceeds the scope of this paper, as does the question of Socratic practice in other dialogues. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-20&quot; name=&quot;nh7-20&quot; id=&quot;nh7-20&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[20] Forms of askeo play a significant role in the Gorgias, and of course (...)' &gt;20&lt;/a&gt;] But keeping the distinctions in mind, we may turn to the two passages in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; that omit the option of practice. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-21&quot; name=&quot;nh7-21&quot; id=&quot;nh7-21&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[21] Under which of the four branches would anamn&#234;sis fall? Recollection (...)' &gt;21&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;3.&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;At the dialogue's end, Plato has Socrates raise and seem to endorse the idea that virtue comes to those who possess it as a divine allotment. Many commentators, finding no convincing alternative, conclude that this is Socrates' final considered position. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-22&quot; name=&quot;nh7-22&quot; id=&quot;nh7-22&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[22] See further Scott, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 192-193, and Devereux, &#8220;Nature and (...)' &gt;22&lt;/a&gt;] In fact, what Plato has Socrates say is highly qualified and conditional. Plato gives all but one of the last twenty-eight lines of the dialogue to Socrates. For ease of reference, I shall break these lines into seven numbered sections:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;SOCRATES: (1) If then (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ei de nun&lt;/i&gt;), in the whole of this discussion (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;en panti t&#244;(i) log&#244;(i) tout&#244;(i)&lt;/i&gt;) we have sought and spoken well (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kal&#244;s ez&#234;t&#234;samen kai elegomen&lt;/i&gt;), virtue would be neither by nature nor something teachable, but something that has come to be present (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;paragignomen&#234;&lt;/i&gt;) through a divine allotment (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;theia moira&lt;/i&gt;) without intelligence (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aneu nou&lt;/i&gt;) in those in whom it is present (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;paragign&#234;tai&lt;/i&gt;)&#8212; (2) unless (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ei m&#234;&lt;/i&gt;) some one of the politic men were such that he could make (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;poi&#234;sai&lt;/i&gt;) another politic as well. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-23&quot; name=&quot;nh7-23&quot; id=&quot;nh7-23&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[23] My rendering of this last phrase closely follows the translation of (...)' &gt;23&lt;/a&gt;] (3) If there were, one could almost say that such a man would be among the living what Homer said Teiresias was among the dead, that &#8220;he alone of those in Hades understands (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;pepnutai&lt;/i&gt;), while the rest are fluttering shadows.&#8221; In the same way would such a man be here, a true thing among shadows with regard to virtue.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;MENO: (4) You seem to me to speak very well (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kallista doke&#238;s moi legein&lt;/i&gt;), Socrates.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;SOCRATES: (5) From this reasoning, then (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ek men toinun toutou to&#251; logismo&#251;&lt;/i&gt;), Meno, it appears to us (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;h&#234;min phainetai&lt;/i&gt;) that it is by divine allotment that virtue comes to be present (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;paragignomen&#234;&lt;/i&gt;) in those in whom it is present (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;paragignetai&lt;/i&gt;). (6) But (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;de&lt;/i&gt;) we will know the clear truth (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;to saphes&lt;/i&gt;) about this when, before seeking in whatever way virtue comes to be present (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;paragignetai&lt;/i&gt;) in human beings, we first make the attempt to seek (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;epicheir&#234;s&#244;men zetein&lt;/i&gt;) what virtue is in itself. (7) But now it's time for me to go somewhere. You persuade your host Anytus of the same things you've been persuaded of, so that he may be more gentle (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;pra(i)oteros&lt;/i&gt;). For if you do persuade him, you will also benefit the Athenians. (99e4-100c2)&lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rather than closing with anything like a straightforward endorsement of virtue as a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;theia&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;moira&lt;/i&gt;, Plato ends the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; with a remarkable&#8212;but largely unremarked&#8212;series of qualifications. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-24&quot; name=&quot;nh7-24&quot; id=&quot;nh7-24&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[24] The qualifications are noted by Scott, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 4; T. Brickhouse (...)' &gt;24&lt;/a&gt;] The &#8216;if' (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ei&lt;/i&gt;) at the start of (1) is obvious but crucial&#8212;starting with the conclusion's first word, Plato makes everything that follows conditional (a qualification reinforced by the &#8216;unless' that begins (2) and the &#8220;If there were&#8221; at the start of (3)). The mindless quality of the divine gift should also put us on our guard: such virtue is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aneu&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;nou&lt;/i&gt;, just as was the inferior demotic virtue identified in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedo&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-25&quot; name=&quot;nh7-25&quot; id=&quot;nh7-25&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[25] The mindlessness of such god-given virtue is emphasized by Klein, (...)' &gt;25&lt;/a&gt;] Most importantly, by having Socrates refer to &#8220;the whole of this discussion,&#8221; Plato prompts the reader to recall the entire dialogue. In doing so, he takes the reader back to Meno's opening three options&#8212;as does the repetition throughout the passage of forms of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;paragignomai&lt;/i&gt;, the verb used at 70a3 when Meno first asked how virtue is acquired. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-26&quot; name=&quot;nh7-26&quot; id=&quot;nh7-26&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[26] Even if one takes &#8220;the whole of this discussion&#8221; to refer back only to (...)' &gt;26&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;This makes conspicuous a gap in Socrates' summary of the &#8220;whole discussion.&#8221; Plato has Socrates name only two of the three ways in which virtue might be acquired, by teaching and by nature. Plato asks that the whole inquiry be recalled, but anyone who does so would immediately notice that Plato's Socrates omits practice.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;In fact, not everyone would notice. Meno does not notice. This, I take it, is the point of (4), the last speech Meno is given in the dialogue. Socrates had said, &#8220;if we have &#8230; spoken well (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kal&#244;s&lt;/i&gt;)&#8221; in saying that virtue is acquired neither by teaching nor by nature. Plato has Meno answer with the superlative: &#8220;You seem to me speak very well (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kallista&lt;/i&gt;).&#8221; Meno's dialectical gifts are clearly limited, so one might be tempted to follow Hoerber in saying &#8220;any further reasoning would be beyond his ken.&#8221; Plato has shown at least twice that Meno's endorsement of a conclusion should not be taken at face value. The first is his misplaced enthusiasm for the mock Gorgianic definition of color at 76d. The second is his exclaiming at 89a4-5 (see also c7) that the claim that virtue is teachable is a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kalos&lt;/i&gt; answer. That said, Meno's final line is correct as far as it goes: the dialogue has shown that neither teaching nor nature is sufficient to make one virtuous. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-27&quot; name=&quot;nh7-27&quot; id=&quot;nh7-27&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[27] Hoerber, &#8220;Plato&amp;#39;s Meno,&#8221; 91.' &gt;27&lt;/a&gt;] But blaming a character in a fictional dialogue misses the point. It is Plato who makes Meno overlook the omission of his own second option.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Why would Plato do that? Before answering that question&#8212;and it is the crucial question&#8212;we should notice two final qualifications. The conditional endorsement of the divine allotment is again underlined in (5), which begins: &#8220;From this reasoning, then, it appears to us&#8230;.&#8221; In other words, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;if&lt;/i&gt; virtue is neither a natural endowment nor teachable, it would &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;seem&lt;/i&gt; to be a divine gift. But the conclusion is valid only if all other mutually exhaustive options have been ruled out.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The final qualification is expressed in (6). With a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;de&lt;/i&gt;-clause at 100b4 answering the conditional &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;men&lt;/i&gt; at 100b2 at the start of (5), Plato tells the reader that, however it might appear, the truth (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;to&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;saphes&lt;/i&gt;) is not yet known. Socrates' call that they jointly seek (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;z&#234;tein&lt;/i&gt;; 100b7) for what virtue is strongly suggests they did not do as well in what they had sought and said (99e4-5) as Meno supposed. Plato has Socrates insist (as he is made to do as well at the end of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Protagoras&lt;/i&gt;) that until virtue itself has been defined, a search for how it is acquired will be premature&#8212;a caution, let us note, as applicable to the final suggestion that virtue comes as a mindless &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;theia moira&lt;/i&gt; as to the two options that have been explicitly ruled out. Though similar pleas to start over and return to the beginning are fairly common in the aporetic dialogues, Socrates' words in this context again serve to remind the attentive reader that not all the options posed at the dialogue's beginning have been explored.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The dialogue concludes with (7). On a vague pretext of having business elsewhere (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;poi&lt;/i&gt;; 100b8), Plato has Socrates instruct Meno to try to persuade Anytus of what he himself has just been persuaded of so as to make him more gentle (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;pra(i)oteros&lt;/i&gt;) and thus benefit the city. We needn't wonder at the outcome of that unwritten dialogue.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno's likely failure at persuading Anytus of anything is more than a sly joke at his expense. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-28&quot; name=&quot;nh7-28&quot; id=&quot;nh7-28&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[28] Just as it is more than a reflection of Plato&amp;#39;s pessimism, though it is (...)' &gt;28&lt;/a&gt;] If, contrary to all expectations, Meno were to make Anytus more gentle, he would succeed, to some degree at least, at what the Sophists promised: by making Anytus more gentle, he would begin to make him more virtuous. To see why we must ask &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;how&lt;/i&gt; Meno would go about making Anytus gentler. How, for Plato, would anyone do so? In its general form, the question is easily answered. For Plato, a person can be made gentler by being refuted. This is the lesson Plato has Socrates deliver (without qualifications!) at the end of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Theaetetus&lt;/i&gt;: &#8220;But if you remain barren [after our present inquiry], you will be less coarse (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;barus&lt;/i&gt;) toward your associates and gentler (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;h&#234;meteros&lt;/i&gt;), modestly (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;s&#244;phron&#244;s&lt;/i&gt;) not supposing yourself to know what you do not know&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tht&lt;/i&gt;. 210c2-4). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-29&quot; name=&quot;nh7-29&quot; id=&quot;nh7-29&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[29] Hoerber, &#8220;Plato&amp;#39;s Meno,&#8221; underlines the many parallels between the Meno (...)' &gt;29&lt;/a&gt;] It is the special benefit conferred by the so-called Sophist of noble lineage, when Socrates compares an ordinary Sophist and the noble Sophist by contrasting a wolf to a dog, the wildest (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;agri&#244;taton&lt;/i&gt;) to the gentlest (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;h&#234;mer&#244;tat&#244;(i)&lt;/i&gt; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophist &lt;/i&gt;229e&#8211;231b). Being refuted has the potential to transform a belligerent opponent into a cooperative, or at least a non-oppositional, partner in inquiry (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; I, 354a12; see also &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep&lt;/i&gt;. VI, 501e7-502a2; IX, 589c6-590d1). This is why the reader suspects Meno would fail. Though he seems to show some signs of gentleness by the end of the dialogue (a point we'll return to shortly), as expressed in (2) a person must be politic to make another so, which is to say, a person must be virtuous to instill virtue in another. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-30&quot; name=&quot;nh7-30&quot; id=&quot;nh7-30&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[30] Commenting on a different passage, Scott, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 144, writes: &#8220;A (...)' &gt;30&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Is Socrates the Teiresias-like politic man spoken of in (3) who by refuting others may make them more virtuous and so benefit the city? [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-31&quot; name=&quot;nh7-31&quot; id=&quot;nh7-31&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[31] For an extended discussion of the identification of Socrates with (...)' &gt;31&lt;/a&gt;] This is a profound and essential question for any reader of the dialogues. In several dialogues&#8212;the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt;, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; itself&#8212;Plato shows Socrates achieving practically the opposite result. Against the rare success of a Theaetetus stand Callicles, Charmides and Critias, Anytus, the Athenian jury, and the many nameless poets, politicians, and craftsmen stung by this ironic gadfly, who are reduced to an angry and resentful malevolence intimating violence. Why Plato shows Socrates humbling and gentling a few but antagonizing so many goes to the heart of Plato's depiction of and possibly changing attitude toward his teacher, and may lie behind his own decision not to philosophize in the agora but to found a learned community and write dialogues that afford the reader an insulating critical distance that a live interlocutor lacked. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-32&quot; name=&quot;nh7-32&quot; id=&quot;nh7-32&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[32] I thank Marina McCoy for insightful comments prompting much of what I (...)' &gt;32&lt;/a&gt;] Perplexity and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aporia&lt;/i&gt; are naturally frustrating, so perhaps a natural or supernaturally endowed disposition toward virtue is a necessary condition for its acquisition after all. All that being said, Socrates is praised as &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;pra(i)otaton &lt;/i&gt;at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phd&lt;/i&gt;. 116c5, and at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt; 521d6-8 Plato has Socrates call himself the only Athenian engaged in the true political art. But one must be precise here. Plato at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 100a1-2 does not write that there may be a politic person able to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;teach&lt;/i&gt; another to be politic. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-33&quot; name=&quot;nh7-33&quot; id=&quot;nh7-33&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[33] In contrast to what is implied by Scott, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 216-17; Reuter, (...)' &gt;33&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;When the thrice-refuted Meno compares Socrates to a stingray, he begins by saying, &#8220;You do nothing but make yourself perplexed and make others perplexed as well&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;tous allous poieis aporein&lt;/i&gt;; 80a1-2). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-34&quot; name=&quot;nh7-34&quot; id=&quot;nh7-34&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[34] Plato twice has Socrates confess his own aporia at the beginning of (...)' &gt;34&lt;/a&gt;] Plato doesn't allow Meno to realize the full significance of what he is saying. In his third and final attempt to define &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;&lt;/i&gt;, Meno was made to say that virtue was the ability to obtain (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;porizesthai&lt;/i&gt;) good things, which for Meno include gold, silver, and possessions (78c5; also c1). Plato has Socrates force Meno to admit that obtaining possessions must involve justice or self-control or piety if the way (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;poros&lt;/i&gt;) is to qualify as virtuous. If it does not, he continues, then the &#8216;not-getting'&#8212;the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;a-poria&lt;/i&gt;&#8212;is virtue when getting would be unjust. And so, Plato has Socrates ask, &#8220;Isn't this also virtue, the not-finding-a-way (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ouk aret&#234; kai aut&#234; estin, h&#234; aporia&lt;/i&gt;)?&#8221; (78e5). Meno is correct to say that Socrates is perplexed and makes others perplexed as well. What Plato doesn't allow Meno to realize (at least before the geometry lesson) is that by inducing perplexity, Socrates benefits others and offers them an opportunity to become more virtuous. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-35&quot; name=&quot;nh7-35&quot; id=&quot;nh7-35&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[35] See also Sharples, Meno, 140; Klein, Commentary, 79. I thank Shane (...)' &gt;35&lt;/a&gt;] This yields a pleasingly Socratic paradox: the way (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;poros&lt;/i&gt;) to virtue is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;a-poria&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Does Meno benefit from his own Socratically induced &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aporia&lt;/i&gt;? That, in essence, is what Socrates' final charge to Meno would assess. Plato repeatedly draws attention to the character defects of Socrates' interlocutor in the first third of the dialogue&#8212;Meno is over-confident (72a2-3), wanting to be told (73c8, 75b1, 81a7), argumentative (75c9), arrogant and demanding (76a8-10, 76b5-7, 76c3), careless and inattentive (79a11-12), vain and preening (80b1-4, c3-5). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-36&quot; name=&quot;nh7-36&quot; id=&quot;nh7-36&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[36] The moral defects of Meno&amp;#39;s character are emphasized by Weiss, Cave, (...)' &gt;36&lt;/a&gt;] Whether and how much Meno changes by the dialogue's end have long been a matter of scholarly contention, but even the most generous assessment finds relatively modest and probably unsustainable improvement. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-37&quot; name=&quot;nh7-37&quot; id=&quot;nh7-37&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[37] The question is widely debated. Among those who see an improvement in (...)' &gt;37&lt;/a&gt;] But the question that should be asked is this: why doesn't Plato show Meno making more progress during the dialogue as a result of his perplexity? If Plato intended the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; to serve as an exhibition of Socratic moral education (as he surely did), [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-38&quot; name=&quot;nh7-38&quot; id=&quot;nh7-38&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[38] Scott, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 5-6. See also Christopher J. Rowe, Plato and the (...)' &gt;38&lt;/a&gt;] his decision to allow the dialogue to end in apparent failure requires an explanation.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;No answer to the question can ignore Plato's choice of Meno as Socrates' interlocutor. The historical Meno's downfall is documented by Xenophon (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Anabasis&lt;/i&gt; 2.1.5, 2.2.1, 2.5.28-31, 2.6.21.29). According to Xenophon (who, it should be noted, is far from impartial), Meno was greedy and grasping and lacking in scruples&#8212;qualities Plato may be evoking in the discussion at 78c-e. In what Plato's original audience must have caught as a choice bit of black humor, the man whom Socrates calls the &#8220;hereditary guest-friend of the Great King&#8221; (78d2-3) traveled to Persia in 401 as a mercenary, where he suffered a terrible death at the King's hands. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-39&quot; name=&quot;nh7-39&quot; id=&quot;nh7-39&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[39] I thank John Lewis for a stimulating discussion of Plato&amp;#39;s (...)' &gt;39&lt;/a&gt;] Whatever benefit the historical Meno might have derived from the real Socrates would have been short-lived.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Better evidence for judging the improvement of Meno's character&#8212;by which I mean evidence internal to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;&#8212;comes from Plato's careful plotting of the dialogue. We should begin by noticing that Plato delays revealing Meno's full response to his own &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aporia&lt;/i&gt; for more than six Stephanus pages. As Meno's third attempt to define virtue breaks down, Plato has Socrates repeatedly urge Meno to return to the beginning (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;palin&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ex&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;arch&#234;s&lt;/i&gt;; 79c3-4, 79e1-2, 79e5). Instead of doing so, Meno is made to give voice to what many an interlocutor&#8212;not to say reader&#8212;has felt through his comparison with the stingray and the paradox of the learner (79e7-81d9), though even here, Socrates develops the formal paradox out of implications Plato has made Meno too indolent to recognize. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-40&quot; name=&quot;nh7-40&quot; id=&quot;nh7-40&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[40] Sallis, Being and Logos, 77-78, nicely connects the need for Socrates (...)' &gt;40&lt;/a&gt;] After agreeing to show (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;epideixomai&lt;/i&gt;; 82b2) Meno that learning is recollection and not teaching, Socrates leads one of Meno's attendant slaves into a state of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aporia&lt;/i&gt; over how to construct a square double the area of a given square. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-41&quot; name=&quot;nh7-41&quot; id=&quot;nh7-41&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[41] On the appropriateness of epideixis in relation to recollection at (...)' &gt;41&lt;/a&gt;] He forces the slave to admit he does not know how to solve the problem, even though he initially thought he did know (84a3-4). Plato has Socrates ask Meno to reflect on what he has just witnessed. Won't Meno admit the slave is better off (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;beltion&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;echei&lt;/i&gt;) because of his perplexity (84b4-5)? Meno concedes that by making him perplexed, Socrates has done something useful (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;prourgon ti&lt;/i&gt;; 84b10). Only now, Socrates says, may the slave make progress, starting from this very perplexity and engaging in a joint inquiry (84c11-12).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;It is important not to overstate the slave's progress. The slave's cognitive state remains as if in a dream, suggesting that little if anything of what he has recollected would count as knowledge. Much additional effort is required&#8212;in this life&#8212;before knowledge is obtained. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-42&quot; name=&quot;nh7-42&quot; id=&quot;nh7-42&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[42] See also Ebert, &#8220;Recollection,&#8221; 193; Rowe, Art, 133-34; Nehamas, (...)' &gt;42&lt;/a&gt;] But perhaps because the slave has been shown a way (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;poros&lt;/i&gt;) forward&#8212;that he can learn without being taught&#8212;he seems willing to make that effort. Plato at least gives no hint of any lingering frustration. And so Plato ends the episode by having Socrates insist that perplexity benefits a person not just intellectually but morally as well:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;SOCRATES: As for the other points, I would not altogether insist on my argument [in favor of recollection]. But that by believing one ought to search for what one does not know we would be better, more courageous, and less lazy than if we supposed we were neither able to discover nor ought to seek what we do not know&#8212;for that I would certainly do battle, as far as I am able, in both word and deed. (86b6-c3) [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-43&quot; name=&quot;nh7-43&quot; id=&quot;nh7-43&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[43] See also Halper, &#8220;Lesson,&#8221; 234: &#8220;the epistemic doctrine is also an (...)' &gt;43&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Only at this point, after having Socrates emphasize the moral benefits of perplexity, does Plato reveal Meno's full response to his own &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aporia&lt;/i&gt;. In what counts as the second important passage in which the option of practice is conspicuously missing, Plato has Socrates invite Meno (once again) to join him in a cooperative search:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;SOCRATES: Are you willing, then, since we agree that one ought to search for what one doesn't know, to try to search in common (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;epicheir&#234;s&#244;men koin&#234;(i) zetein&lt;/i&gt;) for what virtue is?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;MENO: By all means (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;panu men oun&lt;/i&gt;). But then again (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ou mentoi&lt;/i&gt;), Socrates, I would most enjoy (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;h&#234;dista&lt;/i&gt;) what I asked in the first place (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;to pr&#244;ton&lt;/i&gt;), to examine and hear whether it's necessary to make the attempt as its being something teachable (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;h&#244;s didak&#244;(i)&lt;/i&gt;), or as by nature (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;h&#244;s phusei&lt;/i&gt;), or as in whatever way (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;h&#244;s tini pote trop&#244;&lt;/i&gt;) virtue comes to be present (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;paragignomen&#234;s&lt;/i&gt;) in human beings?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;SOCRATES: If I were master (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#234;rchon&lt;/i&gt;), Meno, not only of myself but also of you, we wouldn't examine whether virtue is teachable or not teachable before we had first sought for what it is itself. But since you don't at all attempt to master yourself (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;sauto&#251; oud' epicheireis archein&lt;/i&gt;)&#8212;so that you might be free&#8212;but instead attempt to be my master&#8212;and you do master me&#8212;I will submit to you. For what can I do? So it seems it's necessary to consider what sort of a thing something is when we don't yet know what it is. (86c5-e2)&lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;In this exchange, Plato shows the reader that Meno will not change, and shows why. Like the slave, Meno at first seems willing to join in a cooperative inquiry (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;panu&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;men&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;oun&lt;/i&gt;, duplicating exactly the slave's words at 85b7). But he quickly falls back into old habits. He would rather enjoy (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;h&#234;dista&lt;/i&gt;; cp. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg&lt;/i&gt;. 521d9-e1) hearing Socrates answer what Plato has him call his original question: is virtue acquired (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;paragignomen&#234;s&lt;/i&gt;) by teaching, by nature, or some other way? [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-44&quot; name=&quot;nh7-44&quot; id=&quot;nh7-44&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[44] On Meno&amp;#39;s conflating an active joint investigation with passively (...)' &gt;44&lt;/a&gt;] As at the dialogue's end, Meno is made to forget practice, the very thing Meno needs to develop the self-control he lacks. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-45&quot; name=&quot;nh7-45&quot; id=&quot;nh7-45&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[45] See also Anastaplo and Berns, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 51-52; Weiss, Cave, 128n3; (...)' &gt;45&lt;/a&gt;] Plato immediately has Socrates chastise him for the lack of self-control his insistence reveals: Meno seeks to rule over others instead of trying to master himself. Nevertheless, Plato has Socrates submit. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-46&quot; name=&quot;nh7-46&quot; id=&quot;nh7-46&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[46] I take Socrates&amp;#39; statement at 87b9 that it makes no difference whether (...)' &gt;46&lt;/a&gt;]
In his aggressive, tell-or-be-told behavior, Meno reveals habits acquired from his teacher Gorgias. As is widely recognized, Plato uses Meno throughout the dialogue as a representative product of Gorgias's particular kind of education (71c9-d3, 73c6-8, 96d5-7). This may be seen as early as Meno's opening barrage of questions, which have been likened to the style of Gorgias. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-47&quot; name=&quot;nh7-47&quot; id=&quot;nh7-47&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[47] Gordon, Turning, 101; Nehamas, &#8220;Socrates as Teacher,&#8221; 2; Sternfeld and (...)' &gt;47&lt;/a&gt;] If what Aristotle says about Gorgias at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Pol&lt;/i&gt;. 1260a24-28 is true, Plato may intend Meno's swarm of virtues to reflect Gorgias's approach to definition through enumeration. An obvious instance is Meno's preference for the puffed up Gorgianic definition of color, which Socrates says is the kind of answer to which he has been habituated (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;sun&#234;theion&lt;/i&gt;; 76c4-d8). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-48&quot; name=&quot;nh7-48&quot; id=&quot;nh7-48&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[48] See further Gordon Turning, 100 on Plato&amp;#39;s punning use of poroi and (...)' &gt;48&lt;/a&gt;] Another is Meno's parroting of Gorgias's definition of virtue as the power to rule over others, first offered at 73c9-d1 and alluded to by Socrates at 86d7 in the passage just quoted (at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg.&lt;/i&gt; 452d-e, Gorgias says that the persuasion oratory provides gives one the power to rule over others and enables one to be free). The learner's paradox, which Socrates calls eristic (80e2), probably reflects Gorgias's fondness for skeptical and contentious argument, just as Meno's general manner in the first third of the dialogue reflects the essentially competitive rather than cooperative nature of Gorgias's craft. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-49&quot; name=&quot;nh7-49&quot; id=&quot;nh7-49&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[49] See Aristotle, Soph. El. 34, 183b36-38; DK 82B3. At Gorg. (...)' &gt;49&lt;/a&gt;]
A telling passage follows Meno's failed first attempt at definition and anticipates Socrates' submission to Meno at 86e. At 75a8-9, Plato has Socrates propose that, before defining virtue, Meno define shape and color &#8220;for practice&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;melet&#234;&lt;/i&gt;). But Meno, habituated as he is by a teacher who promised to deliver an answer to every question, refuses: &#8220;No, Socrates, you do it.&#8221; Here too Plato has Socrates chide him, saying that their conversation should display a gentler (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;pra(i)oteron&lt;/i&gt;) form than a disputatious encounter would (75d2-4). But already Plato has Socrates yield. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-50&quot; name=&quot;nh7-50&quot; id=&quot;nh7-50&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[50] See also Hipp. Minor 364d2; Soph. 217d1-3. Scott notes the reference (...)' &gt;50&lt;/a&gt;]
An often overlooked passage at the beginning of the dialogue sets Meno's Gorgias-derived habits as a frame for everything that follows. Instead of having Socrates respond directly to Meno's opening barrage of questions, Plato has him divert the discussion by lavishing ironic praise on Meno and his fellow Thessalians. It used to be, Socrates says, that Meno's countrymen were reputed for their wealth and horsemanship (traditional marks of aristocratic &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ar&#234;te&lt;/i&gt;, recalling Meno's noble birth and connections; 71b6-7). But since Gorgias came to be among them, they are admired for wisdom (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;sophia&lt;/i&gt;) as well. Gorgias, Socrates says, has &#8220;habituated you in the habit&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ethos um&#226;s ethiken&lt;/i&gt;) of answering questions boldly and authoritatively, in a manner proper to experts (70b6-c1), no doubt reflected in Meno's report that he has given countless speeches on the topic of acquiring virtue (80b2-3). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-51&quot; name=&quot;nh7-51&quot; id=&quot;nh7-51&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[51] See also Anastaplo and Berns, Plato&amp;#39;s Meno, 48; Tarrant, Recollecting, (...)' &gt;51&lt;/a&gt;] The ensuing dialogue shows the poverty of such habits.
A final example of Meno's counter-productive habits emerges from a more extensive passage immediately prior to the episode with the slave and prefigures Meno's failure to join in a genuinely cooperative investigation. Just after having Socrates claim that all learning is recollection and that a person should be courageous in searching for knowledge, Plato has Socrates ask Meno if he is willing to take part in a cooperative search for the meaning of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;&lt;/i&gt; (as he had already asked Meno to do at 80d3-4):&lt;/p&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;SOCRATES: One must not, then, be persuaded by the eristic argument (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;t&#244;(i) eristik&#244;(i) log&#244;(i)&lt;/i&gt;); for it would make us lazy (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;argous&lt;/i&gt;) and sounds pleasing (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;h&#234;dus&lt;/i&gt;) to men who are soft (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;tois malakois&lt;/i&gt;). But this one [recollection] makes us hard working and ready to seek (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;z&#234;t&#234;tikos&lt;/i&gt;). Trusting in this to be true, I am willing to seek with you for what virtue is.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;MENO: Yes, Socrates. But how do you mean this, that we do not learn, but that what we call learning (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;math&#234;sis&lt;/i&gt;) is recollection? Can you teach me (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;didaxai&lt;/i&gt;) how this is so?&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;SOCRATES: And after I just said, Meno, that you are capable of anything (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;panourgos&lt;/i&gt;; cp. 80b8), you are now asking if I can teach you, I who say that it is not teaching, but rather recollection&#8212;so that I would immediately be shown to be contradicting myself.&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;MENO: No, by Zeus, Socrates, I didn't speak looking for that to happen, but just out of habit (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;hupo tou ethous&lt;/i&gt;). But if you can show me (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;endeizasthai&lt;/i&gt;) in any way that it is as you say, do show me (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;endeizai&lt;/i&gt;).&lt;/blockquote&gt;
&lt;blockquote&gt;SOCRATES: Well, though it isn't easy, I'm willing to make the effort for your sake. (81d5-82a8)&lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;This exchange precisely mirrors the passage at 86c-e omitting practice, and with it forms a pair of bookends around the geometry lesson. Both passages start with a request by Socrates for a cooperative inquiry, and cite similar moral benefits to be derived from doing so. In both, Meno offers a quick initial agreement. But in both, Meno immediately diverts the discussion to something he would find more pleasant. Socrates chides Meno in both cases for his willfulness, but in both Plato has him quickly submit. The difference in the present passage comes when Meno asks Socrates to explain the idea that all learning is recollection. Meno asks &#8220;Can you &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;teach&lt;/i&gt; me how this is so?&#8221; (81e5). When Socrates accuses Meno of trying to trap him in a contradiction, Plato has Meno apologize, making him say that he was only speaking &#8220;out of habit&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;hupo&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;tou&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ethous&lt;/i&gt;; 82a5). To say that Meno did not intend to trap Socrates misses Plato's point. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-52&quot; name=&quot;nh7-52&quot; id=&quot;nh7-52&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[52] Meno&amp;#39;s lapse is excused in this way by both Weiss, Cave, 78n2, and (...)' &gt;52&lt;/a&gt;] Even if we imagine a red-faced Meno apologizing to Socrates, the young interlocutor still does not do what Socrates had asked. Instead of joining in a cooperative search, Plato has Meno ask Socrates to &#8220;show&#8221; him in some way (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;p&#244;s endeixasthai&lt;/i&gt;) what he means. In other words, the sophistically trained young man wants to hear a sophistically styled exposition. Meno's long-inculcated preference for sophistic &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;epideixeis&lt;/i&gt; (82b2) must be indulged. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-53&quot; name=&quot;nh7-53&quot; id=&quot;nh7-53&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[53] Also noted by Gonzalez, Dialectic, 172.' &gt;53&lt;/a&gt;]
Meno typifies the view that everything that can be learned can be taught (and received passively). Already in the opening lines of the dialogue Meno conflates teaching and learning, when Plato has him substitute &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;math&#234;ton&lt;/i&gt; for &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;didakton&lt;/i&gt;. The same conflation can be seen in the passage where virtue as a natural endowment is ruled out (89c4), when Plato has Meno substitute &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;didakton&lt;/i&gt; for Socrates' &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;math&#234;ton&lt;/i&gt;, again forgetting the option of practice. We shouldn't be surprised, then, when Meno falls back into old habits after the geometry lesson and demands that Socrates return to his opening question, even as he forgets to include the option of practice.
Having Meno forget what he had previously said seems to be one way Plato exploits the irony of Meno's name, which is related to memory and remembering. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-54&quot; name=&quot;nh7-54&quot; id=&quot;nh7-54&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[54] For Plato&amp;#39;s punning on Meno&amp;#39;s name, see Weiss, Cave, 19n8; and Klein, (...)' &gt;54&lt;/a&gt;] In one sense, Meno has a good memory (a quality often remarked on in the literature), having memorized various answers taught to him by Gorgias, and probably questions such as those in his opening barrage as well. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-55&quot; name=&quot;nh7-55&quot; id=&quot;nh7-55&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[55] Aristotle reports at Soph. El. 34, 183b36-184a1, that Gorgias made his (...)' &gt;55&lt;/a&gt;] But Plato has Socrates remark that the ability to learn and having a good memory (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;eumathia kai mn&#234;m&#234;&lt;/i&gt;; 88a9) is beneficial only when guided by &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;phronesis&lt;/i&gt; (88b4) and used with intelligence (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;meta&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;nou&lt;/i&gt;; 88b7); otherwise, he says, they are harmful. Plato uses Meno's spotty ability to remember his own original three options to illustrate a soul that has learned and been trained (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;manthanomena&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kai&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;katartuomena&lt;/i&gt;) without intelligence (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aneu&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;nou&lt;/i&gt;; 88b7-8) and so is harmed by it.
Plato's Meno cannot define virtue because of the habits he has formed, unreflective habits of mind and character unguided by &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;phronesis&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;nous&lt;/i&gt;. His failing is intellectual in that Plato has him indulge uncurious habits of answering confidently when he does not know, of relying on answers from others and lazily demanding to be told, of forgetting what he himself had said. It is a moral failing in that he lacks the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;andreia&lt;/i&gt; to pursue hard questions instead of pleasant answers, and the self-control to make himself change. Meno first seeks to defeat Socrates by repeating what he has memorized from Gorgias; soon, he demands new answers from Socrates in place of those he has been forced to abandon; eventually he attacks Socrates for his own perplexity. What he will not do is take full part in a joint inquiry. Instead, Plato has him force what should have been a shared investigation back into the channel he first laid out without recalling precisely what he had originally said, bullying into submission the one man capable of stinging him out of his complacency. Plato's Meno is doomed, not just as an intellectual inquirer, but as a moral agent as well.
This is the philosophical point behind Plato's having Meno forget practice as a means of acquiring virtue. Virtue cannot be taught. But it can be learned through the appropriate kind of practice. No doubt, practice includes (as it does in Aristotle) the repetition of right actions leading to habituation (cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;NE&lt;/i&gt; II.1, 1103a14-1103b25). Many of Meno's bad habits and consequent behaviors&#8212;his laziness and lack of intellectual courage, his deficient self-control and general mindlessness&#8212;may be attributed to the lack of this sort of practice, even as they show the deficiencies of the habits inculcated in him by Gorgias. But at a deeper (or perhaps we could say, more Platonic) level the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; points to the need for a kind of practice that involves prolonged submission to the perplexity provoked by Socratic questioning. This is the practice of Socratic philosophizing as a way of life. In his own way, the character Meno is allowed to express this. Plato has him speak more truly than he knows when he describes Socrates as the one who makes others perplexed and is always perplexed himself. Plato implies that only through prolonged association (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;sunousia&lt;/i&gt;) with a truly politic man will the hit-or-miss &#8220;virtue&#8221; that operates &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aneu&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;nou&lt;/i&gt; be replaced with a mindful wisdom, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;phronesis&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;meta&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;nou&lt;/i&gt; at the core of all the other virtues. Perhaps this is Plato's real point in quoting the first of the two passages from Theognis (95d5-e2), urging the young person to spend time in the company of noble men, especially given that the second passage (95e6-96a2) denies that virtue can be taught. A passage from the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt; also suggests the need for sustained contact. That dialogue ends with Socrates urging Callicles to practice virtue (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#244;n&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;n&lt;/i&gt;), turning to politics only after practicing it in common with him (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;koin&#234;(i&lt;/i&gt;) &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;santes&lt;/i&gt;; 527d1-4). The best life is to &#8220;practice justice and the rest of the virtues&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;dikaiosun&#234;n&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kai&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;t&#234;n&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;all&#234;n&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;n&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;askountas&lt;/i&gt;; 527e4; see also 509d8-e2) with the one true practitioner of the political art. The importance of extended &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;sunousia&lt;/i&gt; with Socrates is the non-metaphorical point of the midwife passage in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Theaetetus&lt;/i&gt; (see especially &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tht&lt;/i&gt;. 150d2-151a5). Surely this is the life exemplified by Socrates' sustained examination of himself and others. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-56&quot; name=&quot;nh7-56&quot; id=&quot;nh7-56&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[56] Sunousia is a central theme of Kenneth M. Sayre, Plato&amp;#39;s Literary (...)' &gt;56&lt;/a&gt;]
This is anything but the mindless practice of virtue criticized in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedo&lt;/i&gt; and typified in the habits Meno acquired from Gorgias. One can fully acquire the virtues only by practicing them under the guidance of another in the full and continuing awareness of the insufficiency of one's own knowledge. For the author of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, virtue both is and is acquired through the sustained practice of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aporia&lt;/i&gt;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-57&quot; name=&quot;nh7-57&quot; id=&quot;nh7-57&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[57] My position is anticipated by Halper (&#8220;Lesson&#8221;) who argues, as I do, (...)' &gt;57&lt;/a&gt;]
&lt;strong class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;
&lt;/strong&gt;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;4.&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Though the flaws in Meno's character have terrible&#8212;if not tragic&#8212;consequences, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-58&quot; name=&quot;nh7-58&quot; id=&quot;nh7-58&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[58] His fate might have seemed tragic if either Plato or Xenophon had (...)' &gt;58&lt;/a&gt;] they would certainly seem to be corrigible under the proper influence. Otherwise, no one once started on the wrong path could hope to reform and become virtuous. Should Socrates be faulted, then, for not doing more to save Meno from himself? [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-59&quot; name=&quot;nh7-59&quot; id=&quot;nh7-59&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[59] Throughout her book, Weiss seems intent on defending Socrates against (...)' &gt;59&lt;/a&gt;] I hope it is clear by now that such a question is misdirected. The character Socrates does nothing more or less than what Plato wants him to do, and so for that reason is blameless.
More importantly, there was nothing more that Plato needed to do. The historical Meno was past redemption, dead fifteen years or more at the hands of his hereditary guest friend the Great King when Plato chose to use him as a character in a dialogue on virtue and its acquisition. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-60&quot; name=&quot;nh7-60&quot; id=&quot;nh7-60&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[60] The dramatic date of the Meno seems to be fixable with remarkable (...)' &gt;60&lt;/a&gt;] Plato's concern&#8212;in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; as in all the dialogues&#8212;is for the reader. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-61&quot; name=&quot;nh7-61&quot; id=&quot;nh7-61&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[61] Various commentators have made this point in different ways. See for (...)' &gt;61&lt;/a&gt;] The question he must have asked as he plotted out the dialogue was how could he rouse the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;reader&lt;/i&gt; from moral and intellectual complacency? How could he encourage the reader to share in the inquiry with &#8220;Socrates&#8221;&#8212;the real Socrates, too, of course was dead [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-62&quot; name=&quot;nh7-62&quot; id=&quot;nh7-62&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[62] Could this be the point of the enigmatic quotation of Pindar Fr. 127 (...)' &gt;62&lt;/a&gt;]&#8212;to share in the perplexity of one who knows he does not know? How, to ask the same question differently, could he prompt the reader to engage in the essential practice of reflection upon his or her own life? Only (he seems to have decided) by showing the failure of an interlocutor and the obstacle standing in the way of his&#8212;and therefore, the reader's&#8212;progress.
This is the strategy Plato employs in perhaps a dozen dialogues, even at the risk of making Socrates sometimes seem a failure. Of the earlier of those roughly dozen, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; stands out as an artistic culmination. It heralds a mastery of literary form in the service of philosophic argument in that the failure of the inquiry follows directly from a character's refusal to engage in the very practice that was the answer to the central philosophical question. Neither the omission of practice by Meno following the geometry lesson nor Socrates' failure to mention practice at the end of the dialogue requires us to resort to a variant reading from an inferior manuscript to be explained. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-63&quot; name=&quot;nh7-63&quot; id=&quot;nh7-63&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[63] F&amp;#39;s omission of ask&#234;sis can be explained as an ancient anticipation of (...)' &gt;63&lt;/a&gt;] In the dialogue's closing lines, Plato allows Socrates to treat Meno's reduced set of options as if they had been the only possibilities from the start. When virtue is shown not to be teachable, Plato makes Meno carelessly accept the &#8216;none-of-the-above' option&#8212;virtue as a mindless gift of the gods&#8212;as if it were the only remaining possibility, even as Plato places an ever-mindful Teiresias before Meno and the reader. Plato deliberately has his characters pass over the possibility of acquiring virtue through practice&#8212;an option waiting to be recognized by anyone who returns, as Plato hints that the reader should do, to the beginning &#8220;of the whole inquiry and discussion&#8221; with the ensuing failures and omissions of the discussion in mind. By letting the increasingly futile dialogue run to its end and then pointing the reader back to the beginning, Plato both tells a tale of failure and shows the route toward virtue's acquisition. The characters Meno and Socrates fail in their attempt to define virtue, and Plato's Socrates makes Meno only marginally better at best. But for the attentive reader, who may submit to the discipline Meno refuses to form, Plato cannot be said to have failed at all. The art of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; is that Plato illustrates essential lessons about virtue and its acquisition not just despite the failure of its characters, but by means of it. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb7-64&quot; name=&quot;nh7-64&quot; id=&quot;nh7-64&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[64] It is a pleasure to thank Karen Newman for her perceptive reading of (...)' &gt;64&lt;/a&gt;]
&lt;br \&gt;&lt;br \&gt;
William WIANS&lt;br \&gt;
Merrimack College and Boston College&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;hr /&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_notes'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-1&quot; name=&quot;nb7-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-1&quot;&gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] &#8220;In the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno &lt;/i&gt;. . . more that is characteristic of Plato is brought together in a smaller space than in any other dialogue.&#8221; J. S. Mill, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dissertations&lt;/i&gt;, 3.350; W. Pater, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato and Platonism&lt;/i&gt;, 52s: &#8220;that most characteristic dialogue.&#8221; Both are quoted by E. S. Thompson, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The &lt;/i&gt;Meno&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; of Plato &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;] (London: Macmillan, 1901; rpt. Garland Publishing, 1980), xxv.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-2&quot; name=&quot;nb7-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-2&quot;&gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] As Klein puts it &#8220;answers can be given in a written text by the very action it presents. . . . This also confers on the dialogues the quality of completeness as against their unfinished (aporetic) character in terms of the verbal argument.&#8221; Jacob Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;A Commentary on Plato's Meno &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;] (University of North Carolina Press, 1965), 17.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-3&quot; name=&quot;nb7-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-3&quot;&gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] A point put bluntly by Kahn: Socrates is both &#8220;Plato's historical master and his literary puppet&#8221; (p. 35); Charles Kahn, &#8220;Did Plato Write Socratic Dialogues?&#8221; in H. Benson (ed.), &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Essays on the Philosophy of Socrates &lt;/i&gt;(Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1992), 35-52; originally in &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Classical Quarterly &lt;/i&gt;31, 305-20. Sallis invokes an earlier series of commentators by saying &#8220;nothing is accidental in a Platonic dialogue&#8221;; John Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos &lt;/i&gt;(Atlantic Highlands, NJ: Humanities Press International), 17 and note 7.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-4&quot; name=&quot;nb7-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-4&quot;&gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] Penner expresses precisely the essential literary quality of the dialogues I wish to emphasize: &#8220;Plato's dialogues are most extraordinarily finely crafted and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;plotted &lt;/i&gt;pieces of work&#8221; (my emphasis), in Terrence Penner, &#8220;The Death of the so-called &#8216;Socratic Elenchus',&#8221; in M. Erler and L. Brisson (eds.), &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias-Menon: Selected Papers from the Seventh Symposium Platonicum &lt;/i&gt;[Erler and Brisson (eds.), &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias-Menon&lt;/i&gt;] (Stuttgart: Academia Verlag, 2007), 3-19. The quotation is on p. 4. I would say that Plato makes the same point using an organic metaphor at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phdr&lt;/i&gt;. 264c2-5. The possibility that Plato could have been present for an actual conversation between the historical Meno and Socrates (see A. E. Taylor, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato: The Man and his Works &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato&lt;/i&gt;] [London: The Dial Press, 1936], 130) should not distract the reader from the literary character and especially the careful plotting of the dialogue as we have it.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-5&quot; name=&quot;nb7-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-5&quot;&gt;5&lt;/a&gt;] Translations are my own, made with an eye on those of Robert Sharples, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato: Meno &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;], (Oxford: Aris and Phillips, 2004; revised and updated edition of 1985), and George Anastaplo and Lawrence Berns, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno &lt;/i&gt;(Newburyport: Focus Publishing, 2004). I have followed the text and line numbering in Sharples.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-6&quot; name=&quot;nb7-6&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-6&quot;&gt;6&lt;/a&gt;] Explanations for the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno's &lt;/i&gt;abrupt opening are offered by Dominic Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;] (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2006), 11-13; H. Tarrant, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Recollecting Plato's Meno &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Recollecting&lt;/i&gt;] (London: Duckworth, 2005), 17-20; Roslyn Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Virtue in the Cave: Moral Inquiry in Plato's Meno &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;] (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 2001), 18-19; Jill Gordon, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning Toward Philosophy &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning&lt;/i&gt;] (University Park: The Pennsylvania State University Press, 1999), 101; Francisco Gonzalez, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dialectic and Dialogue: Plato's Practice of Philosophical Inquiry &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dialectic&lt;/i&gt;] (Evanston: Northwestern University Press, 1998), 154; Alexander Nehamas, &#8220;Meno's Paradox and Socrates as Teacher&#8221; [&#8220;Socrates as Teacher&#8221;], &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Oxford Studies in Ancient Philosophy &lt;/i&gt;3 (1985): 1-30; Robert Sternfeld and Harold Zyskind, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno: A Philosophy of Man as Acquisitive &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Acquisitive&lt;/i&gt;] (Carbondale: Southern Illinois University Press, 1978), 20-22; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 38; R. S. Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno &lt;/i&gt;(Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1961), 199; R. G. Hoerber, &#8220;Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;&#8221;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phronesis &lt;/i&gt;5 (1960): 78-102; and Taylor, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato&lt;/i&gt;, 130 and 131-2, among others.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-7&quot; name=&quot;nb7-7&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-7&quot;&gt;7&lt;/a&gt;] Translating &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234; &lt;/i&gt;into English is a standing problem. The two most common alternatives are virtue and excellence. W. K. C. Guthrie, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The Sophists &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophists&lt;/i&gt;] (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press 1971), 253, credits Socrates with giving the word its strong moral emphasis; see also Gregory Vlastos, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socrates: Ironist and Moral Philosopher &lt;/i&gt;(Ithaca: Cornell University Press, 1991), 200. Indeed, one can see this in Plato's inductive move from the excellence of a well functioning body part to the (morally) excellent functioning of the soul at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep&lt;/i&gt;. I, 353b2-e11. Because Plato in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno &lt;/i&gt;is most interested in &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234; &lt;/i&gt;in the sense of moral virtue, virtue is the translation I prefer&#8212;though the character Meno is allowed to operate with the older sense of excellence in civic affairs; see further Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 201-02.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-8&quot; name=&quot;nb7-8&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-8&quot;&gt;8&lt;/a&gt;] Plato's Protagoras promises to do precisely that at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Protagoras &lt;/i&gt;318e5-319a2, as does Plato's Hippias at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hippias Major &lt;/i&gt;283c3-284a4. At 95c1-4, Meno denies that his teacher Gorgias claimed to teach &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;&lt;/i&gt;, a passage Dodds cites in arguing that Gorgias wasn't a Sophist: E. R. Dodds, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato: Gorgias &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt;] (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1959), 6-7. But Meno does not contrast Gorgias with the Sophists so much as he contrasts his teacher with &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;other &lt;/i&gt;Sophists (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;t&#244;n all&#244;n&lt;/i&gt;; 95c3). Otherwise, his reply to Socrates' question at 95b9-10 about Sophists as teachers of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234; &lt;/i&gt;would be a non sequitur. Note also that Plato's Gorgias promoted his instruction with a promise of public success (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias &lt;/i&gt;452d5-e4; see also &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hippias Major &lt;/i&gt;282b4-c5), and says that a student who comes to him not knowing what is just, noble, or good will learn these things from him (460a3-4; but see Dodds' further remarks on 216-17, and Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 205-206).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-9&quot; name=&quot;nb7-9&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-9&quot;&gt;9&lt;/a&gt;] For surveys of the historical situation, see Tarrant, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Recollecting&lt;/i&gt;, 11-17 and 20-23 (with special emphasis on Plato's sharing in the general Greek spirit of competitiveness); R. S. Slings, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Clitophon &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Clitophon&lt;/i&gt;] (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1999), 106-108; Nehamas, &#8220;Socrates as Teacher,&#8221; 2-4; G. B. Kerferd, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The Sophistic Movement &lt;/i&gt;(Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1981), 131-138; Kenneth Dover, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Greek Popular Morality &lt;/i&gt;(Berkeley and Los Angeles: University of California Press, 1974), 88-95; Guthrie, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophists&lt;/i&gt;, 250-260; M. J. O'Brien, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The Socratic Paradoxes and the Greek Mind &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Paradoxes&lt;/i&gt;] (Chapel Hill: University of North Carolina Press, 1967), 144n27; Paul Shorey, &#8220;Phusis, Melet&#234;, Epist&#234;m&#234;,&#8221; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Transactions of the American Philological Association &lt;/i&gt;40 (1909): 185-201; Thompson, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 57-58.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-10&quot; name=&quot;nb7-10&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-10&quot;&gt;10&lt;/a&gt;] This tendency is very widespread. Among those cited elsewhere in this paper, those who speak this way include Edward Halper, &#8220;A Lesson from the Meno&#8221; [&#8220;Lesson&#8221;], in Erler and Brisson (eds.), &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias-Menon&lt;/i&gt;, 234-242; Sharples, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 4; Gordon, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning&lt;/i&gt;, 93-94; Garreth Matthews, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socratic Perplexity and the Nature of Philosophy &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Perplexity&lt;/i&gt;] (Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1999), 43; J. M. Day (ed.), &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno in Focus &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno in Focus&lt;/i&gt;] (London: Routledge, 1994), 1, 3, 19; K. V. Wilkes, &#8220;Conclusions in the Meno&#8221; [&#8220;Conclusions&#8221;], &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Archiv f&#252;r Geschichte der Philosophie &lt;/i&gt;61: 143-153 (page numbers cited as reprinted in Day); Thompson, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, xxvi and 57; Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 4. Initially Nehamas, &#8220;Socrates as Teacher,&#8221; 2, represents Meno as asking whether &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234; &lt;/i&gt;is &#8220;teachable, inborn, or acquired in some other way&#8221; (omitting practice). But by p. 4, this is reduced solely to the question of virtue's teachability. Both Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos&lt;/i&gt;, 94, and Sternfeld and Zyskind, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Acquisitive&lt;/i&gt;, 20 and 51, are more careful, speaking of how virtue is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;acquired&lt;/i&gt;, though neither directly considers the option of practice.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-11&quot; name=&quot;nb7-11&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-11&quot;&gt;11&lt;/a&gt;] See also &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;NE &lt;/i&gt;X 9, 1179b20-23.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-12&quot; name=&quot;nb7-12&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-12&quot;&gt;12&lt;/a&gt;] In at least one other passage practice could easily have been reintroduced. At 89a5-c7, Plato has Meno conclude that because a person is not made virtuous by nature, virtue must therefore be teachable, as if there is no third option. The omission of practice in this passage is noted by Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 18, and Thompson, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 161. A further passage is noted by Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 202, who thinks the quotation from Theognis at 95d &#8220;would certainly have brought the idea of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;sis&lt;/i&gt; to mind&#8221; (see also p. 396); I will eventually return to this passage.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-13&quot; name=&quot;nb7-13&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-13&quot;&gt;13&lt;/a&gt;] Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 202-03 (&#8220;an explicit rejection of [practice] might have been a tedious and unnecessary encumbrance&#8221;); Sharples, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 123; B. Casteln&#233;rac, &#8220;Comment aqcu&#233;rir la vertu? La tripartition ph&#250;sus, &#225;skesis, m&#225;th&#234;sis dans le &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;M&#233;non&lt;/i&gt;,&#8221; in Erler and Brisson (eds.), &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias-Menon&lt;/i&gt;, 223-227; Gonzalez, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dialectic&lt;/i&gt;; 173; Hoerber, &#8220;Plato's Meno&#8221; (Hoerber's approach is criticized in R. S. Bluck, &#8220;Plato's Meno,&#8221; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phronesis&lt;/i&gt; 6: 94-101); Rosemary DesJardins, &#8220;Knowledge and Virtue: Paradox in Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;&#8221; [&#8220;Virtue&#8221;], &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Review of Metaphysics&lt;/i&gt; 39 (December 1985): 261-281; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 1965. For a cogent argument against finding an implicit rejection of practice in the explicit rejection of teaching, see Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 17n22.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-14&quot; name=&quot;nb7-14&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-14&quot;&gt;14&lt;/a&gt;] This is essentially the position of Taylor, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato&lt;/i&gt;, 131 and 144-145. See also Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 40-41; Thompson, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 59 and 228-229.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-15&quot; name=&quot;nb7-15&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-15&quot;&gt;15&lt;/a&gt;] Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 16-18. Scott finds some additional support for his position in the spurious Platonic dialogue &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;On Virtue &lt;/i&gt;(18n24), which resembles the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno &lt;/i&gt;in some respects, but like F omits practice in its opening lines. But this pale Academic cribsheet, just four Stephanus pages long as compared to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno's &lt;/i&gt;thirty, lacks all of what makes the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno &lt;/i&gt;a masterpiece&#8212;brilliant characterizations, philosophical depth, the irony, the sting&#8212;and begins with a didactic Socrates himself posing the reduced Meno-like alternatives for acquiring virtue. The omission of practice&#8212;along with so much else&#8212;strikes me as having little probative value. After noting points of interest in the dialogue for the history of later Platonism, Tarrant, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Recollecting&lt;/i&gt;, 86-89, ultimately finds the dialogue itself &#8220;inimical to the spirit of Socratic inquiry&#8221; for similar reasons. For a more sympathetic reading of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;On Virtue&lt;/i&gt;, see M. Reuter, &#8220;Is Goodness Really a Gift from the Gods? Another Look at the Conclusion of Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;&#8221; [&#8220;Gift&#8221;], &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phoenix &lt;/i&gt;55 (2001): 77-97. Weiss, who devotes no separate consideration to practice in Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave &lt;/i&gt;(but see note 57 below), endorses Scott's solution in R. Weiss, &#8220;Review of Dominic Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;,&#8221; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Bryn Mawr Classical Review &lt;/i&gt;2006.12.30.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-16&quot; name=&quot;nb7-16&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-16&quot;&gt;16&lt;/a&gt;] Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 16 and 17n22; Daniel Devereux, &#8220;Nature and Teaching in Plato's Meno&#8221; [&#8220;Nature and Teaching&#8221;], &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phronesis &lt;/i&gt;23: 118-126, especially 123-124; Hoerber, &#8220;Plato's Meno,&#8221; 83. O'Brien (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Paradoxes&lt;/i&gt;, 107 and 140-48) sees their mutual exclusivity answered and reconciled in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;. DesJardins, &#8220;Virtue,&#8221; finds an implicit reconciliation in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno &lt;/i&gt;itself. Guthrie (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sophists&lt;/i&gt;, 254) claims &#8220;it is not likely that anyone believed &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234; &lt;/i&gt;to be attainable solely by the bounty of nature or by personal effort or by another's instruction&#8221;. However, Slings (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Clitophon&lt;/i&gt;, 108) argues that Plato's contemporary and rival Isocrates&#8212;like Meno, a student of Gorgias&#8212;did view the three options as mutually exclusive.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-17&quot; name=&quot;nb7-17&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-17&quot;&gt;17&lt;/a&gt;] See also &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Protag&lt;/i&gt;. 323c. Both Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 158, and Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 137-38, note that things bestowed by nature require no effort to acquire (see also Thompson, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 161, citing Bury). One might say with 89a-c in mind that the work comes later, in the effort to protect the naturally virtuous from corrupting influences. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tuche &lt;/i&gt;as a possible source of virtue can probably be assimilated to a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;theia moira &lt;/i&gt;as a supernatural source, but in any case is ruled out at 99a2-4. It is dismissed by Aristotle at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;NE &lt;/i&gt;I 9, cited above. Reuter, &#8220;Gift&#8221;, 80-81, offers a rather different classification of the options.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-18&quot; name=&quot;nb7-18&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-18&quot;&gt;18&lt;/a&gt;] At &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg&lt;/i&gt;. 450c7-e1, Plato has Socrates divide &#8220;all the crafts&#8221; into two groups in response to Gorgias' assertion that rhetoric is &#8220;about speeches.&#8221; The first group is said to involve little or no speech to do its work. Painting and sculpture are the examples. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Technai &lt;/i&gt;in the second group perform their work entirely through speech (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;dia logou pan perainousi&lt;/i&gt;). Arithmetic, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logistik&#234;&lt;/i&gt;, and geometry, Socrates says, rely on speech for all their activity and authority (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;pasa h&#234; praxis kai to kuros&lt;/i&gt;; see also 451a8-c9, where astronomy replaces geometry). For more on this passage, see Dodds, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt;, 196-97.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-19&quot; name=&quot;nb7-19&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-19&quot;&gt;19&lt;/a&gt;] For the sense of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;ton&lt;/i&gt;, see Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 203.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-20&quot; name=&quot;nb7-20&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-20&quot;&gt;20&lt;/a&gt;] Forms of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;askeo &lt;/i&gt;play a significant role in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt;, and of course the nature and effectiveness of Socrates' practices figure in many dialogues. As one less familiar example: at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cleitophon &lt;/i&gt;407b6-7, Cleitophon is made to contrast what is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;ton &lt;/i&gt;with that which can be taught. Interestingly, Cleitophon omits &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;sis &lt;/i&gt;a few lines later when he states categorically that Socrates maintains that virtue is teachable, even as he criticizes Socrates for not teaching &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;him &lt;/i&gt;what virtue is; 408b7.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-21&quot; name=&quot;nb7-21&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-21&quot;&gt;21&lt;/a&gt;] Under which of the four branches would &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;anamn&#234;sis &lt;/i&gt;fall? Recollection implies that at least some knowledge is innate relative to a soul's current incarnation. But if the definition of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234; &lt;/i&gt;is one of the items that can be recollected, this merely postpones the question of virtue's acquisition to an earlier point in the soul's existence, during which it &#8220;has seen&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;e&#244;rakuia&lt;/i&gt;) and &#8220;has learned&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;memath&#234;ken&lt;/i&gt;; 81c6-7) all things, with no further description of the process involved. See further Tarrant,&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; Recollecting&lt;/i&gt;, 39-43; Sharples, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 148; Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos&lt;/i&gt;, 82-83; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 95. For an extended (and I think convincing) argument against the scholarly myth of a &#8220;theory&#8221; of recollection in Plato, see T. Ebert, &#8220;The Theory of Recollection in Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;,&#8221; in Erler and Brisson (eds.), &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias-Menon&lt;/i&gt;, 184-198, and Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 63-76.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-22&quot; name=&quot;nb7-22&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-22&quot;&gt;22&lt;/a&gt;] See further Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 192-193, and Devereux, &#8220;Nature and Teaching,&#8221; 124. Recently P. Dimas, &#8220;Teachers of Virtue&#8221; [&#8220;Teachers&#8221;], &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ancient Philosophy &lt;/i&gt;27 (2007): 1-23, has argued that Socrates regards virtue as a &#8220;gift of the gods [representing] a necessary steppingstone in one's ascent toward the knowledge that comprises virtue&#8221; (p. 22), but that this knowledge is not presently known to anyone, including Socrates (Dimas does not say whether he thinks Plato knows what virtue is). Michael Forster, &#8220;Socrates' Profession of Ignorance&#8221; [&#8220;Profession&#8221;], &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Oxford Studies in Ancient Philosophy &lt;/i&gt;32 (2007): 1-35, argues that the historical Socrates believed that virtue was true belief obtained through divine inspiration, and cites the conclusion of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno &lt;/i&gt;as part of his evidence. Coming at the question from the perspective of later Academic debates, Reuter, &#8220;Gift&#8221;, explains the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno's &lt;/i&gt;conclusion as expressing the Platonic position that good men come to rule their cities through an act of divine providence.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-23&quot; name=&quot;nb7-23&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-23&quot;&gt;23&lt;/a&gt;] My rendering of this last phrase closely follows the translation of Anastaplo and Berns.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-24&quot; name=&quot;nb7-24&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-24&quot;&gt;24&lt;/a&gt;] The qualifications are noted by Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 4; T. Brickhouse and N. Smith, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Socrates &lt;/i&gt;(Oxford: Oxford University Press, 1994), 57-58; Day, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno in Focus&lt;/i&gt;, 31; O'Brien, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Paradoxes&lt;/i&gt;, 95. They are highlighted by Tarrant, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Recollection&lt;/i&gt;, 72-75; Reuter, &#8220;Gift&#8221;, 93-94; Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos&lt;/i&gt;, 101-103 (in connection with the &#8220;curious&#8221; conclusion that virtue is a divine gift); and Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 255-56.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-25&quot; name=&quot;nb7-25&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-25&quot;&gt;25&lt;/a&gt;] The mindlessness of such god-given virtue is emphasized by Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 255-56, and Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 434-36. Reuter, &#8220;Gift&#8221;, offers another explanation; see esp. pp. 87-89. Both he and Tarrant, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Recollection&lt;/i&gt;, show that the later Platonic tradition took divine allotment or portion very seriously. I do so as well, provided that practice is recognized as needed for the &#8220;cultivation and development&#8221; (Reuter, &#8220;Gift&#8221;, 94) of this gift if virtue is to be fully attained.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-26&quot; name=&quot;nb7-26&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-26&quot;&gt;26&lt;/a&gt;] Even if one takes &#8220;the whole of this discussion&#8221; to refer back only to the announcement of the hypothetical method (86c8-d2) and the ensuing examination of the hypothesis that virtue is teachable, we shall see how the lead-in to that passage already points the reader back to Meno's opening questions.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-27&quot; name=&quot;nb7-27&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-27&quot;&gt;27&lt;/a&gt;] Hoerber, &#8220;Plato's Meno,&#8221; 91.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-28&quot; name=&quot;nb7-28&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-28&quot;&gt;28&lt;/a&gt;] Just as it is more than a reflection of Plato's pessimism, though it is that as well; see Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 216-218, and Gordon, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning&lt;/i&gt;, 113-15.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-29&quot; name=&quot;nb7-29&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-29&quot;&gt;29&lt;/a&gt;] Hoerber, &#8220;Plato's Meno,&#8221; underlines the many parallels between the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno &lt;/i&gt;and the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Theaetetus&lt;/i&gt;. At &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;NE &lt;/i&gt;II 1, 1103b18-19, Aristotle implies that a person becomes &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;sophr&#244;n &lt;/i&gt;and gentle (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;praos&lt;/i&gt;) simultaneously; see also I 13, 1103a8.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-30&quot; name=&quot;nb7-30&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-30&quot;&gt;30&lt;/a&gt;] Commenting on a different passage, Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 144, writes: &#8220;A true teacher is someone capable of making another like himself, i.e. knowledgeable or, in the context of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, virtuous.&#8221;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-31&quot; name=&quot;nb7-31&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-31&quot;&gt;31&lt;/a&gt;] For an extended discussion of the identification of Socrates with Teiresias, see Dominic Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Recollection and Experience: Plato's Theory of Learning and Its Successors &lt;/i&gt;(Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 1995), 48-50. See also the brief but suggestive comments of Reuter, &#8220;Gift,&#8221; 89, Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 169; and Sternfeld and Zyskind, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Acquisitive&lt;/i&gt;, 104.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-32&quot; name=&quot;nb7-32&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-32&quot;&gt;32&lt;/a&gt;] I thank Marina McCoy for insightful comments prompting much of what I say in this paragraph.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-33&quot; name=&quot;nb7-33&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-33&quot;&gt;33&lt;/a&gt;] In contrast to what is implied by Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 216-17; Reuter, &#8220;Gift&#8221;, 89; Sharples, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 14 (see also 189); and Wilkes, &#8220;Conclusions.&#8221; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; &lt;/i&gt;See further Gordon, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning&lt;/i&gt;, 113, and Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 43. Plato consistently uses &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;poiein &lt;/i&gt;rather than &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;didaskein &lt;/i&gt;in connection with Socratic activities in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;. Thus, the Tieresias figure &#8220;could make&#8221; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;poi&#234;sai&lt;/i&gt;; 100a2 ) others more politic. See further note 56 below.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-34&quot; name=&quot;nb7-34&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-34&quot;&gt;34&lt;/a&gt;] Plato twice has Socrates confess his own &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aporia &lt;/i&gt;at the beginning of the dialogue (71b1-2 and 72a2), in contrast to Meno's confidence that there is no &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aporia &lt;/i&gt;in stating what virtue is (72a3). See also &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laches &lt;/i&gt;200e2-5. For the extent of Socrates' own &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aporia&lt;/i&gt;, see Matthews, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Perplexity&lt;/i&gt;, chapters 3 and 4, and note his wonderful subtitle for chapter 5 dealing with the first half of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;: &#8220;The Self-Stinging Stingray.&#8221; If &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;sis &lt;/i&gt;implies self-formation as suggested above, then Socrates's practice of perplexing others &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;and himself &lt;/i&gt;would be consistent with this sense of the word.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-35&quot; name=&quot;nb7-35&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-35&quot;&gt;35&lt;/a&gt;] See also Sharples, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 140; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 79. I thank Shane Ewegen for a stimulating discussion of this passage.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-36&quot; name=&quot;nb7-36&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-36&quot;&gt;36&lt;/a&gt;] The moral defects of Meno's character are emphasized by Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 17-21; Gordon, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning&lt;/i&gt;, 95-103; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 35-38.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-37&quot; name=&quot;nb7-37&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-37&quot;&gt;37&lt;/a&gt;] The question is widely debated. Among those who see an improvement in Meno are Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 209-213; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gordon &lt;/i&gt;1999, 93-116; and Sternfeld and Zyskind, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Acquisitive&lt;/i&gt;, 8-18. Nehamas is sympathetic towards Meno from the start. Those who deny any significant change include Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 129-30; Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos&lt;/i&gt;, 94-95; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 184; and W. K. C. Guthrie, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato: Protagoras and Meno &lt;/i&gt;(Harmondsworth: Penguin Books, 1956), 11.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-38&quot; name=&quot;nb7-38&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-38&quot;&gt;38&lt;/a&gt;] Scott, Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 5-6. See also Christopher J. Rowe, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato and the Art of Philosophical Writing &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Art&lt;/i&gt;] (Cambridge: Cambridge University Press, 2007), 131-132.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-39&quot; name=&quot;nb7-39&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-39&quot;&gt;39&lt;/a&gt;] I thank John Lewis for a stimulating discussion of Plato's humor.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-40&quot; name=&quot;nb7-40&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-40&quot;&gt;40&lt;/a&gt;] Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos&lt;/i&gt;, 77-78, nicely connects the need for Socrates to do so to Meno's paradoxical &#8220;complex of ignorance and memory.&#8221;&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-41&quot; name=&quot;nb7-41&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-41&quot;&gt;41&lt;/a&gt;] On the appropriateness of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;epideixis &lt;/i&gt;in relation to recollection at this point, see Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos&lt;/i&gt;, 91-93.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-42&quot; name=&quot;nb7-42&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-42&quot;&gt;42&lt;/a&gt;] See also Ebert, &#8220;Recollection,&#8221; 193; Rowe, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Art&lt;/i&gt;, 133-34; Nehamas, &#8220;Socrates as Teacher,&#8221; 21-22.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-43&quot; name=&quot;nb7-43&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-43&quot;&gt;43&lt;/a&gt;] See also Halper, &#8220;Lesson,&#8221; 234: &#8220;the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;epistemic &lt;/i&gt;doctrine is also an &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ethical &lt;/i&gt;doctrine&#8221;; Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 69; Gonzalez, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dialectic&lt;/i&gt;, 166; Wilkes, &#8220;Conclusions,&#8221; 215, 216-17. For Klein (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 201), this speech is proof of Socrates' own moral &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aret&#234;&lt;/i&gt;. By contrast, Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 123, reads the passage as referring to a derivative sort of manliness in the intellectual sphere. While in the immediate context this may be correct, one should not forget Socrates' own exemplary courage as reported by Alcibiades in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symposium &lt;/i&gt;nor overlook the strong connection between true courage (again exemplified by Socrates at Delium) and perplexity drawn in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laches&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-44&quot; name=&quot;nb7-44&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-44&quot;&gt;44&lt;/a&gt;] On Meno's conflating an active joint investigation with passively hearing someone else's opinion, see Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 51n9 and 127n1. I take the conflation as evidence against Gordon's argument that Meno has grasped the need for an active, joint inquiry coming out of the geometry lesson&#8212;though of course the reader may be meant to draw this lesson.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-45&quot; name=&quot;nb7-45&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-45&quot;&gt;45&lt;/a&gt;] See also Anastaplo and Berns, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 51-52; Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 128n3; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 184-85.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-46&quot; name=&quot;nb7-46&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-46&quot;&gt;46&lt;/a&gt;] I take Socrates' statement at 87b9 that it makes no difference whether one says &#8216;teachable' or &#8216;is recollected' to be part of his submission to Meno announced at 86d8 and thus Plato's way of alerting the reader to the limitations of what is to follow, rather than a pointer to a special kind of &#8216;maieutic' teaching equivalent to recollection. See also Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 128-130; Wilkes, &#8220;Conclusions&#8221;, 212-13; Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos&lt;/i&gt;, 96-98; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 182-89. For the maieutic reading, see Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 144; Sharples, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 162; Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 20-22, 325-326.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-47&quot; name=&quot;nb7-47&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-47&quot;&gt;47&lt;/a&gt;] Gordon, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning&lt;/i&gt;, 101; Nehamas, &#8220;Socrates as Teacher,&#8221; 2; Sternfeld and Zyskind, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Acquisitive&lt;/i&gt;, 8.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-48&quot; name=&quot;nb7-48&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-48&quot;&gt;48&lt;/a&gt;] See further Gordon &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning&lt;/i&gt;, 100 on Plato's punning use of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;poroi &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aporrai &lt;/i&gt;throughout this exchange. Ebert, &#8220;Recollection&#8221;, 196-97 finds a similar example in Meno's approval of Socrates' high-flown rhetoric at 86b1-5.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-49&quot; name=&quot;nb7-49&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-49&quot;&gt;49&lt;/a&gt;] See Aristotle, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Soph. El&lt;/i&gt;. 34, 183b36-38; DK 82B3. At &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg&lt;/i&gt;. 456b6-457b5, Plato has Gorgias repeatedly characterize his craft as a competitive art (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;agonia&lt;/i&gt;). See also Sharples, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 142-143; Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 52; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 62n21 and 88; Hoerber, &#8220;Plato's Meno,&#8221; 101. Though he has Socrates call it eristic, Plato clearly takes the paradox seriously in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;. See further Nehamas, &#8220;Socrates as Teacher,&#8221; 8-9.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-50&quot; name=&quot;nb7-50&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-50&quot;&gt;50&lt;/a&gt;] See also &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hipp. Minor &lt;/i&gt;364d2; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Soph&lt;/i&gt;. 217d1-3. Scott notes the reference to practice, but citing his earlier argument in favor of manuscript F, says it would be incongruous for Socrates to mention practice here but no place later.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-51&quot; name=&quot;nb7-51&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-51&quot;&gt;51&lt;/a&gt;] See also Anastaplo and Berns, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 48; Tarrant, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Recollecting&lt;/i&gt;, 24; Gordon, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning&lt;/i&gt;, 96-97; Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos&lt;/i&gt;, 67n3; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 41.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-52&quot; name=&quot;nb7-52&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-52&quot;&gt;52&lt;/a&gt;] Meno's lapse is excused in this way by both Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 78n2, and Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 96; see also Gonzalez, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dialectic&lt;/i&gt;, 166. Contrast my pairing of the two passages with the deflationary reading of Scott, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 122-125.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-53&quot; name=&quot;nb7-53&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-53&quot;&gt;53&lt;/a&gt;] Also noted by Gonzalez, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dialectic&lt;/i&gt;, 172.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-54&quot; name=&quot;nb7-54&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-54&quot;&gt;54&lt;/a&gt;] For Plato's punning on Meno's name, see Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 19n8; and Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 43-46. On Meno's memory as a source of his ignorance, see Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos&lt;/i&gt;, 67-68, 75-76.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-55&quot; name=&quot;nb7-55&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-55&quot;&gt;55&lt;/a&gt;] Aristotle reports at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Soph. El. &lt;/i&gt;34, 183b36-184a1, that Gorgias made his pupils memorize both answers and questions designed to lead the respondent into refutations. See also Sharples, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 137-138; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 71-72.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-56&quot; name=&quot;nb7-56&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-56&quot;&gt;56&lt;/a&gt;] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Sunousia &lt;/i&gt;is a central theme of Kenneth M. Sayre, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Literary Garden &lt;/i&gt;[&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Garden&lt;/i&gt;], University of Notre Dame Press, 1995. Another author of Socratic dialogues, Aeschines, gives the following words to Socrates in his &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Alcibiades&lt;/i&gt;: &#8220;I had no knowledge I could teach the man that would benefit him (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ouden math&#234;ma epistamenos, ho didaxas anthr&#244;pon &#244;phel&#234;saim' an&lt;/i&gt;), but I thought that through my love I could make him better (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;belti&#244; poi&#234;sai&lt;/i&gt;) by associating (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;sunousian&lt;/i&gt;) with him&#8221; (fragment 12 Nestle). But see Forster, &#8220;Profession,&#8221; 12-13, for a different reading of this passage.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-57&quot; name=&quot;nb7-57&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-57&quot;&gt;57&lt;/a&gt;] My position is anticipated by Halper (&#8220;Lesson&#8221;) who argues, as I do, that, although virtue cannot be taught, it can be learned, identifying virtue with Socratic inquiry. Gordon, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Turning&lt;/i&gt;, 94, says that though virtue can't be taught &#8220;it can be induced by other means,&#8221; specifically by dialectical engagement, but does not relate this to practice (see especially her conclusion on p. 115). Similarly, both Gonzalez (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dialectic&lt;/i&gt;, 172-73) and Wilkes (&#8220;Conclusions&#8221;) link virtue and inquiry but gloss over practice. And though I agree with Weiss that perplexity is meant to lead to a recognition of the limitations on all human knowledge (and not just the limited knowledge of the perplexed individual) and is therefore crucial in acquiring virtue and the human wisdom Socrates speaks of in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;, I think she errs by making &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;epimeleia &lt;/i&gt;(which she translates as diligence) something distinct from the opening option of practice; Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 170.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-58&quot; name=&quot;nb7-58&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-58&quot;&gt;58&lt;/a&gt;] His fate might have seemed tragic if either Plato or Xenophon had shown Meno exhibiting some sign of inner struggle over the life he had chosen. But despite Jowett's calling him a &#8220;Thessalian Alcibiades&#8221; (cited by Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 37, and already disputed by Thompson, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, xix), Meno as depicted by Plato lacks Alcibiades' great soul in turmoil, embracing both comic and tragic elements.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-59&quot; name=&quot;nb7-59&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-59&quot;&gt;59&lt;/a&gt;] Throughout her book, Weiss seems intent on defending Socrates against the charge of not caring sufficiently for Meno's welfare; see, for instance, Weiss, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Cave&lt;/i&gt;, 127-30. In a similar vein, Dimas (&#8220;Teachers,&#8221; 18) argues that Socrates did not know what virtue is because it would have been immoral for Socrates not to tell Meno outright if he in fact knew it.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-60&quot; name=&quot;nb7-60&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-60&quot;&gt;60&lt;/a&gt;] The dramatic date of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno &lt;/i&gt;seems to be fixable with remarkable precision to early 402. See Sharples, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 17; Bluck, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Meno&lt;/i&gt;, 120-24. Meno the character in the dialogue cannot be blamed any more than Plato's character Socrates in that he too says only what Plato wants him to say. That does not mean, of course, that his moral and intellectual shortcomings aren't meant as a warning to the reader.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-61&quot; name=&quot;nb7-61&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-61&quot;&gt;61&lt;/a&gt;] Various commentators have made this point in different ways. See for instance Sayre, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Garden&lt;/i&gt;, pp. 27-32, 59-64; Gordon,&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; Turnings&lt;/i&gt;, Chp. 2, &#8220;Reader&#8221;; Sallis, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Being and Logos&lt;/i&gt;, 17-22; Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 3-10. Pierre Hadot draws a nice distinction between the intent of the dialogues as &#8220;forming&#8221; rather than &#8220;informing&#8221; the reader on pages 73-74 of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;What is Ancient Philosophy? &lt;/i&gt;translated by Michael Chase (Cambridge: Harvard University Press, 2002; originally published as &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Qu'est-ce que la philosphie antique? &lt;/i&gt;Paris: &#201;ditions Gallimard, 1995).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-62&quot; name=&quot;nb7-62&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-62&quot;&gt;62&lt;/a&gt;] Could this be the point of the enigmatic quotation of Pindar Fr. 127 at 81b8-c4, that among the dead those with great wisdom return to the earth as heroes? See further Klein, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary&lt;/i&gt;, 92-95.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-63&quot; name=&quot;nb7-63&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-63&quot;&gt;63&lt;/a&gt;] F's omission of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ask&#234;sis &lt;/i&gt;can be explained as an ancient anticipation of the modern puzzlement over Plato's not directly addressing the option in the rest of the dialogue. My guess is that an ancient editor adopted the simple if crude solution of excising the puzzling term at its first and only appearance, though Reuter's explanation of its exclusion from &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;On Virtue &lt;/i&gt;as the result of a certain prejudice (&#8220;Gift&#8221;, 86) is also plausible.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh7-64&quot; name=&quot;nb7-64&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 7-64&quot;&gt;64&lt;/a&gt;] It is a pleasure to thank Karen Newman for her perceptive reading of an earlier version of this paper and for stimulating discussions of its themes. I am grateful to Marina McCoy for searching comments on the paper's penultimate version. For other helpful comments I thank Fred Miller, Michael Brady, and John Lewis, and members of the audience at the 2009 meeting of the Ancient Philosophy Society, including Mitch Miller, Debra Nails, Jill Gordon, and especially Yancy Dominick, my commentator on that occasion. I am also grateful for comments from two anonymous referees.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		
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		<title>5. Plato's Republics</title>
		<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article118</link>
		<guid isPermaLink="true">http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article118</guid>
		<dc:date>2013-03-24T11:06:10Z</dc:date>
		<dc:format>text/html</dc:format>
		<dc:language>en</dc:language>
		<dc:creator>TARRANT, Harold</dc:creator>



		<description>Various ancient sources refer to the Platonic work that we know as Republic in the plural. Aristotle seems to have made it possible to refer to politeiai as &#8216;constitutions', actual or written, and therefore some of our texts are best explained as references to Plato's two written constitutions, Republic and Laws. One neglected reference that may perhaps be explained in this way occurs in the anonymous Antiatticista. A large number of references from the Alexandrian school of Platonism in late (&amp;hellip;)

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&lt;a href="http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?rubrique13" rel="directory"&gt;12. Plato 12 (2012)&lt;/a&gt;


		</description>


 <content:encoded>&lt;div class='rss_chapo'&gt;Various ancient sources refer to the Platonic work that we know as &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;in the plural. Aristotle seems to have made it possible to refer to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;politeiai &lt;/i&gt;as &#8216;constitutions', actual or written, and therefore some of our texts are best explained as references to Plato's two written constitutions, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;. One neglected reference that may perhaps be explained in this way occurs in the anonymous Antiatticista. A large number of references from the Alexandrian school of Platonism in late antiquity cannot be explained in that way, and should be understood with reference to the prevalent interpretation of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;, which gives equal weight to the internal (psychic) and external (civic) constitutions. The trickiest question is what it means in the titles of three commentaries dating from the early imperial era.&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_texte'&gt;&lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Introduction&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The way that Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;was cited in antiquity has important consequences for our understanding of the history of its reception. In particular it has a bearing on the history of commentary on the work, on the interrelation between title and exegesis in late antiquity, and possibly even on the manuscript tradition since the important &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Parisinus Graecus&lt;/i&gt; 1807 (A) and dependent manuscripts placed &#8216;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republics or On Justice&lt;/i&gt;'&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; &lt;/i&gt;at its commencement. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-1&quot; name=&quot;nh8-1&quot; id=&quot;nh8-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[1] Details in Slings (2003); note that Slings misleadingly reports the (...)' &gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] As we shall see, ancient titles were often not so much the definitive product of authorial intention as a convenient description for others referring to the work. The early absence of anything equivalent to the capital letter made it natural to think of many titles as being flexible, and it is well known that works like the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedo &lt;/i&gt;(&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;On Soul&lt;/i&gt;) and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Critias &lt;/i&gt;(&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Atlantikos&lt;/i&gt;) were regularly known by alternative titles in antiquity. There is a special problem that it was impossible to distinguish between Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; and his &#8216;constitution', usually the constitution outlined within the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Various ancient sources refer to the Platonic work that we know as &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;in the plural: not &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeia &lt;/i&gt;but &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai&lt;/i&gt;. There has been a certain amount of discussion as to why this should be so. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-2&quot; name=&quot;nh8-2&quot; id=&quot;nh8-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[2] Westerink (1981); D&#246;rrie &amp; Baltes (1993), 203-4; Hatzimichali (2012) (...)' &gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] The tradition of a plural title involves both philosophers and grammarians, two groups who ought to have interacted in antiquity but might have done so only intermittently. The primary issue is whether the plural &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai &lt;/i&gt;was even used &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;as a title &lt;/i&gt;before the fifth century AD. I begin with the evidence of a grammarian whose work has not been sufficiently pondered in this regard, and after a few extra lines on the grammatical tradition I move to the citations of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;by the philosophers, from Aristotle to late antiquity. Special attention must be paid to a number of citations of exegetical works on the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai &lt;/i&gt;that appear to date from early imperial times.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;1. The Antiatticist&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;It has recently come to my attention that there is a citation that uses the plural title in the anonymous Antiatticista, published in Bekker's 1814 &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Anecdota Graeca&lt;/i&gt;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-3&quot; name=&quot;nh8-3&quot; id=&quot;nh8-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[3] Bekker (1814). [Text of Antiatticist = 1.75&#8211;116] The surviving work is (...)' &gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] This text is a collection of linguistic forms (words, inflections, and words in certain meanings) that failed to meet the approval of atticizing grammarians bent on removing &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Koine &lt;/i&gt;influences. In this text, arranged roughly in alphabetic order, the author notes where such words have been used in Attic and other respected Greek literature. At p. 110.19 Bekker we read:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;div class=&quot;spip_poesie&quot;&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#927;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#8150;&#957;&#183; &#928;&#955;&#940;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#928;&#959;&#955;&#953;&#964;&#949;&#943;&#945;&#953;&#962;.&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The initial uncertainty as to his intention is whether he wishes to refer to the philosopher or the comic playwright, for he generally refers to Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;(i) with a singular title, and (ii) by book number, using an unfamiliar division into six books. However at six points he uses the expected words &#928;&#955;&#940;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#928;&#959;&#955;&#953;&#964;&#949;&#943;&#8115;, without mention of a book (82.11, 94.19, 94.30, 111.16, 116.9 and 25). Though it is conceivable that the plural form is some strange title from Plato Comicus, since other strange titles in the plural are known (normally indicating the identity of a chorus), [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-4&quot; name=&quot;nh8-4&quot; id=&quot;nh8-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[4] Tarrant (2012), 55 and 63.' &gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] one should be reluctant to affirm that &#928;&#959;&#955;&#953;&#964;&#949;&#8150;&#945;&#953; was a comic title when examples of the citation of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;in this plural form seem to exist. There is actually one example in the Antiatticista of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;being named as &#928;&#959;&#955;&#953;&#964;&#953;&#954;&#8182;&#957; (rather than &#928;&#959;&#955;&#953;&#964;&#949;&#943;&#945;&#962;) at 100.20, citing book IV (of the six-book version) and clearly meant to refer to 462b8 (in our book V).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;If we take the reference to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai&lt;/i&gt; to refer to Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; we encounter the difficulty that the author will normally select the right voice in which to cite a verb, while both the references in Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;(372a6-7, 419a5-6) use this verb in the middle voice rather than the active. The active can be found in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charmides &lt;/i&gt;(161e6, 165d5, both present infinitive), &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;(643b8, 858b7, present participles), and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias &lt;/i&gt;(514b6, perfect indicative), though of these works only &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt; is ever cited by the Antiatticista. In order to resolve the difficulties one might be led to propose various emendations. For instance, the text might possibly have read &#927;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#8150;&#957;&#183; &#7936;&#957;&#964;&#8054; &#964;&#959;&#8166; &#959;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#8150;&#963;&#952;&#945;&#953;&#183; &#928;&#955;&#940;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#928;&#959;&#955;&#953;&#964;&#949;&#943;&#945;&#953;&#962; (implying that the middle is used where the active would be normal), [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-5&quot; name=&quot;nh8-5&quot; id=&quot;nh8-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[5] One might also consider the possibility that some alternative word for (...)' &gt;5&lt;/a&gt;] since the trouble with the active is that it is probably the more regular form in classical times, so that atticizing grammarians can hardly have frowned on it, at least when used in the simple sense of &#8216;build'. It is forms rare in Attic that are likely to be cited in such a work.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;One actually does find related terminology among the Atticist lexicographers, for Phrynichus rejects the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Koine &lt;/i&gt;noun &#959;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#959;&#956;&#942; in favour of the Attic &#959;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#972;&#956;&#951;&#956;&#945; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Eclogues &lt;/i&gt;395). Furthermore, as we shall see below, two late texts are witness to discussion by unknown grammarians of the active and middle voices of the verb &#959;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#8150;&#957; itself. Earlier objections to the misuse of building-related terminology may have prompted the Antiatticista's citation of this series of three connected terms&#8212;not only the verb in the active, but also (110.20-21) &#959;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#959;&#956;&#943;&#945; (cited only for Thucydides VII, but found at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep&lt;/i&gt;. 394a5) and &#959;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#972;&#956;&#951;&#963;&#953;&#962; (again only cited for Thucydides VII, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-6&quot; name=&quot;nh8-6&quot; id=&quot;nh8-6&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[6] This should have been the third book, III.2.2 or 21.1; the previous (...)' &gt;6&lt;/a&gt;] but found at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep&lt;/i&gt;. 401a3). These lines are very compressed, suggesting that something may have been lost in the abridgement of the original material. That in turn may possibly explain a lack of precision. One should therefore ask whether the grammarian is predisposed to a lack of precision at the point. With that end in view we shall examine the distribution of those cases where a book is not specified for &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; or for either Herodotus or Thucydides. We shall also consider when the wrong book is cited for Herodotus or Thucydides, though we cannot do this systematically for the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;because the boundaries of most books are unknown, and it cannot be assumed that none of the content has been rearranged, as I have argued (Tarrant 2012).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The normal method of citing the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;in this work is to follow the word that is subject to comment with &#8216;Plato' [nom.] &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeia &lt;/i&gt;[gen.] book-number [dat.]; that order may follow the specification of a required sense or receive some further addition. A total of 26 cases follow this pattern. A further 7 cases have reversed the genitive of the title and the book-number. But 7 cases (including the one under consideration) omit the book number, and place the title in the dative. In these seven, six cases fail to capture the correct form of the word in our texts, although this is usually the author's practice, with the result that a noun might be cited in any case, or a verb in any voice or tense. It is natural to infer that the bulk of the author's material comes from notes taken while reading the texts, resulting in greater precision, but that a few entries are based on memory, no attempt being made to check the original. The author wishes to add something further at this point, and he may either omit or guess at the correct book-number. Omissions are found as in table 1:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;table class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;
&lt;tbody&gt;
&lt;tr class=&quot;row_even&quot;&gt;&lt;td&gt;Bekker page &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;Thucydides &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;Herodotus &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;Total &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;Refs. &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;Percentage &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr class=&quot;row_odd&quot;&gt;&lt;td&gt;77-81 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;20 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr class=&quot;row_even&quot;&gt;&lt;td&gt;82-83 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;1 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;1 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;2 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;7 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;28.57 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr class=&quot;row_odd&quot;&gt;&lt;td&gt;84-91 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;15 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr class=&quot;row_even&quot;&gt;&lt;td&gt;92-95 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;2 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;3 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;5 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;19 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;26.32 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr class=&quot;row_odd&quot;&gt;&lt;td&gt;96-106 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;1 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;1 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;37 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;2.7 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr class=&quot;row_even&quot;&gt;&lt;td&gt;107-111 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;2 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;1 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;0 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;3 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;23 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;13.04 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;tr class=&quot;row_odd&quot;&gt;&lt;td&gt;112-116 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;2 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;1 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;2 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;6 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;12 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;td&gt;41.67 &lt;/td&gt;&lt;/tr&gt;
&lt;/tbody&gt;
&lt;/table&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&lt;br \&gt;&lt;/p&gt;
&lt;div class=&quot;spip&quot; style=&quot;text-align:center;&quot;&gt;Table 1: Citations without book-number&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;br \&gt;
&lt;br \&gt;
Clearly the omissions of book numbers are concentrated at certain points, including 82-83, 92-95, and the last few pages. They are less striking when part of a list of authorities, as in the case of Herodotus at 83.31, but the impression of inaccurate memory-work may be enhanced, as when the lexical entry is misspelt, as at 100.23 (if the text is correctly preserved) with &#7984;&#963;&#967;&#972;&#966;&#969;&#957;&#959;&#957; for Herodotus' &#7984;&#963;&#967;&#957;&#972;&#966;&#969;&#957;&#959;&#957; (4.155). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-7&quot; name=&quot;nh8-7&quot; id=&quot;nh8-7&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[7] Besides the omission of the nu, note the Antiatticista&amp;#39;s default (...)' &gt;7&lt;/a&gt;] The overall problem increases towards the end of the work, which seems unnaturally compressed. We do not meet the entries for mu until p. 107, thirty pages through Bekker's text, and nu to omega are disposed of in pp. 109-116. Entries seem too few as well as too brief. References that lack the citation of a book number for these works are particularly common at pp. 113-16. The compression may have been the work of an epitomator, which Lee (2013) has quite reasonably argued for, though one would have to postulate a process that is, in general, much more ruthless at the end than at the beginning. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-8&quot; name=&quot;nh8-8&quot; id=&quot;nh8-8&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[8] Rather than a diligent epitomator carefully excising the same kind of (...)' &gt;8&lt;/a&gt;] An alternative might be that the work was never properly finished. From p. 110 none of the remaining seven references to Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;are entirely unproblematic, and an example would be the citation of the simple verb instead of the compound &#7952;&#960;&#953;&#967;&#961;&#969;&#956;&#945;&#964;&#943;&#950;&#949;&#953;&#957; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep&lt;/i&gt;. 601a5). There is no guarantee that the author had found the compound in his text, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-9&quot; name=&quot;nh8-9&quot; id=&quot;nh8-9&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[9] Tarrant (2012), 60 n.24.' &gt;9&lt;/a&gt;] but, seeing that the book number is not given, faulty memory may well be to blame. However, of six references to other Platonic works at pp. 110-116, only p. 116.29, which I relate to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias &lt;/i&gt;485e7, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-10&quot; name=&quot;nh8-10&quot; id=&quot;nh8-10&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[10] Tarrant (2012), 57.' &gt;10&lt;/a&gt;] should give any concern.
&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;If we conclude that the failure to cite a book number is an indication that the original author is working from memory rather from notes taken while reading, then we are not expecting that the reference to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai&lt;/i&gt; rather than to a single &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeia &lt;/i&gt;is aiming to convey precise information. Most likely it is just an observation that, in spite of the grammarians' tendency to condemn certain &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;oik- &lt;/i&gt;terms in certain senses, many of them were entirely legitimate. If we had known that Plato Comicus had written a play of this title then we should see it as a reference to him, but in the present circumstances it seems more probable that we are dealing with some kind of attempt to derive the forms required from Plato the philosopher, an author who does indeed use many of them. However, the author is unlikely to have temporarily forgotten the usual title of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;that he employs so often elsewhere, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-11&quot; name=&quot;nh8-11&quot; id=&quot;nh8-11&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[11] Here again I mention the single exception of the work&amp;#39;s being cited as (...)' &gt;11&lt;/a&gt;] and we should consider seriously the possibility that he is trying to refer either to more than one version of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;(&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai&lt;/i&gt;) [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-12&quot; name=&quot;nh8-12&quot; id=&quot;nh8-12&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[12] This possibility arises only if the six-book arrangement differed (...)' &gt;12&lt;/a&gt;] or more likely to those Platonic works that deal with constitutions (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;politeiai&lt;/i&gt;). Not only would this latter solution help to explain the active voice of the verb (cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;643b8, 858b7), but as we shall see there may have been a precedent for the use of the plural in this sense in Aristotle.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;I believe that the correct solution to the problem in the Antiatticista actually involves both &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;. If the Atticists were going to condemn a sense of &#959;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#8150;&#957; then one possibility might be the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Koine &lt;/i&gt;use as &#8216;edify' (LSJ 3), with a personal object, but Plato could not be said to offer any comparable example. More probable here is that an exception had been made to the use of the active in what is properly the middle sense, of having a house built rather than performing all the work oneself. It could be argued that this is the sense in which Plato intends both middle-voice forms in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;, particularly at 419a5-6 but possibly also at 372a6-7. However, the active forms in &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;both relate to the actual builder, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-13&quot; name=&quot;nh8-13&quot; id=&quot;nh8-13&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[13] Both examples of the active in Charmides (161e, 165d) also involve the (...)' &gt;13&lt;/a&gt;] one learning to be a builder and needing to play at building (642b-c), and, in an elaborate analogy (858b), one who is actually &#8216;building' a law-code out of assembled materials. So Plato's two &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;constitutional works&lt;/i&gt; are actually a model of how the two voices should be employed. Clearly the surviving version of the Antiatticista does not specify this, but it may well be that the epitomator has omitted material that would have cited Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai &lt;/i&gt;as a possible source for the correct use of the voices of this verb, material ultimately derived not from the Antiatticista's personal reading but from one of the grammarians whose work he draws on and qualifies; for grammarians had at some time certainly discussed the voices of &#959;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#8150;&#957; in relation to both Homer and Demosthenes. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-14&quot; name=&quot;nh8-14&quot; id=&quot;nh8-14&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[14] Thomas Magister, p. 214.13-16 Ritschl (s.v. &#954;&#945;&#964;&#945;&#963;&#954;&#949;&#965;&#940;&#950;&#969;), shows that (...)' &gt;14&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;This solution, like almost any solution that will appeal to the loss of information thanks to the activities of an epitomator, can be regarded as provisional only. The Antiatticista is not an easy author to fathom. We must now look at the remaining evidence.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;2. Boethus the Platonic Lexicographer&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Another linguistic work cites Plato in a similar way centuries later, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Etymologicum Magnum&lt;/i&gt;. Elsewhere it cites the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;quite normally in the singular (e.g. 31.20, 199.7, 769.35, 777.14), but at 789.45 we read of the word &#966;&#945;&#8166;&#955;&#959;&#962;:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;div class=&quot;spip_poesie&quot;&gt;
&lt;div&gt;&#954;&#945;&#8054; &#7952;&#960;&#8054; &#964;&#959;&#8166; &#8165;&#8115;&#948;&#943;&#959;&#965;&#183; &#928;&#955;&#940;&#964;&#969;&#957; &#928;&#959;&#955;&#953;&#964;&#949;&#953;&#8182;&#957; &#960;&#961;&#974;&#964;&#8179;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-15&quot; name=&quot;nh8-15&quot; id=&quot;nh8-15&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[15] For &#8216;first&amp;#39; it is clear from the citation of Rep 423c5-6 that &#8216;fourth&amp;#39; (...)' &gt;15&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;This late citation would be irrelevant to our present purpose, but for the fact that the entry has a complicated history, and this has led to its being regarded as fragment 5 of Boethus the Platonic lexicographer, who may not be far separated in date from the Antiatticista. Owing to the complications, there is no guarantee that either the fragment itself, assigned to Boethus because of structural similarities with fragments 1 and 4, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-16&quot; name=&quot;nh8-16&quot; id=&quot;nh8-16&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[16] Dyck (1985), 83-84.' &gt;16&lt;/a&gt;] or more particularly the plural form of the Platonic title, goes back to early imperial times. The Platonic title may have resulted from a very late &#8216;correction'. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-17&quot; name=&quot;nh8-17&quot; id=&quot;nh8-17&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[17] For the special problems of dating any individual pieces of text (...)' &gt;17&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;3. Aristotle&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Aristotle has no difficulty in using the singular for the title of the work we know as &#8216;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;', and it is the only title used when discussing that work in &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politics &lt;/i&gt;II.1-6 (1261a6, 9; 1264b28), but at IV.7 we read that &#8216;people use only the four [constitutions] just like Plato in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;politeiai&lt;/i&gt;' (1293b42-94a1). I avoid a title-indicating capital letter, since Aristotle did not have it available, and for the same reasons I omit the brackets in which modern editors enclose &#8216;just like Plato'. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-18&quot; name=&quot;nh8-18&quot; id=&quot;nh8-18&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[18] Westerink (1981) 112; I ignored here the possibility that there has (...)' &gt;18&lt;/a&gt;] I assume that Aristotle is referring to the two written &#8216;constitutions' (1260b29-30) of Plato that he had dealt with previously at II.1-6, both of which had failed to take note of the &#8216;polity' (in Aristotle's special sense), allegedly contenting themselves with just four forms, monarchy, oligarchy, democracy, and aristocracy. This is hardly an accurate account of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;VIII-IX where five constitutions are enumerated, nor of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Statesman&lt;/i&gt; 291d-292a (three or five, with six at 302d-e); it is less a distortion of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;IV 709e-713a, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-19&quot; name=&quot;nh8-19&quot; id=&quot;nh8-19&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[19] The most exact parallel to Aristotle&amp;#39;s group of four is not at 710e3-6, (...)' &gt;19&lt;/a&gt;] where Plato comes frustratingly close to using the word &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;politeia&lt;/i&gt; in its Aristotelian sense. While D&#246;rrie-Baltes (III, 204 n.1) supports Westerink's (1981) proposal to interpret this reference as a general one to Plato's political works, it is perhaps unnecessary to be certain of what Aristotle wrote here; we need to suppose only that the text that was transmitted could be taken to refer to Plato's two works that discussed his type of constitution.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;4. Commentary-titles&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Early in the history of commentary on Plato we find two titles that couple the term most often used to denote a commentary, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;hypomn&#234;ma &lt;/i&gt;or &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;hypomn&#234;mata&lt;/i&gt;, with the name of Plato and the plural &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai&lt;/i&gt;. They have naturally been taken to indicate some kind of commentary on the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;. However, though we are familiar with many interpretative works that relate to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;, we do not actually know of any tradition of commenting on the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; that involved a succession of lemmata taken in order in the same way as most surviving commentaries on Plato did. Unlike other Proclan commentaries, the Proclan &#8216;Commentary' on the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; consists of a series of hermeneutic essays. We do not have papyrus fragments that can with confidence be said to come from a regular commentary on the work. We are aware of several works on aspects of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-20&quot; name=&quot;nh8-20&quot; id=&quot;nh8-20&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[20] See D&#246;rrie-Baltes (1993) 80.1, 3, 5-7.' &gt;20&lt;/a&gt;] especially&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; &lt;/i&gt;its mathematical aspects, whose authors included Clearchus, Dercyllides, Dionysius of Halicarnassus, possibly Theon of Smyrna, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-21&quot; name=&quot;nh8-21&quot; id=&quot;nh8-21&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[21] If the Commentary on the Republic (D&#246;rrie-Baltes III 80.6 = Theon, (...)' &gt;21&lt;/a&gt;] and possibly Taurus of Sidon (or Beirut). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-22&quot; name=&quot;nh8-22&quot; id=&quot;nh8-22&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[22] The identity of the two is unproven; the fragment (D&#246;rrie-Baltes III (...)' &gt;22&lt;/a&gt;] Again, of the two of Plutarch's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Quaestiones Platonicae &lt;/i&gt;that concern the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;, the third (1001c-1002e) is concerned with mathematics (namely the Divided Line), while the ninth is not. Thanks to Proclus (in &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Remp.&lt;/i&gt; II.96.10-15 = D&#246;rrie-Baltes III 76.4), and ultimately probably to Porphyry, we have quite a list of pre-Porphyrian interpreters who tackled the Myth of Er in particular, but most probably did so in works on the nature of the soul. Hence, what we lack is a reference to regular commentaries, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-23&quot; name=&quot;nh8-23&quot; id=&quot;nh8-23&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[23] By &#8216;regular commentary&amp;#39; I am thinking of a lemmatic commentary dealing (...)' &gt;23&lt;/a&gt;] and one of the reasons for this was no doubt the likelihood that such a commentary would have been a monumental undertaking, longer than the Platonic original. It is appropriate therefore that we take a fresh look at the plural titles, asking whether they could not have been exegetical works that set out to discuss Plato's constitutions, i.e. the arrangements for governance and social organisation, in both &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The works concerned are attributed to Potamo of Alexandria, from the Augustan age, and Onosander (first century A.D.?). A third plural title that fails to include the term &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;hypomn&#234;ma(ta)&lt;/i&gt; is a work in three books ascribed to Manaichmus (of unknown date). In all cases the title comes from the Suda under the entries for the authors concerned, who are in every case called philosophers, and in the case of Onosander and Manaichmus &#8216;Platonic philosophers'. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-24&quot; name=&quot;nh8-24&quot; id=&quot;nh8-24&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[24] It should be assumed that Potamo is the Alexandrian &#8216;Eclectic&amp;#39; discussed (...)' &gt;24&lt;/a&gt;] Thus we cannot be entirely sure whether we are dealing with a title bestowed on the commentary by its author, or one that had come to be used many centuries later, for the transmitted title of Proclus' &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary on Plato's Republic&lt;/i&gt; actually uses the plural term, though Proclus' own practice in the text is to refer to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;by its normal singular title. However, there seems to be something of a pattern in the Suda's references to scholarship on the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;from centuries earlier, and on balance I favour accepting that titles referring to Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai &lt;/i&gt;did exist in this period, which is not far removed in date from that of the Antiatticista.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;It has been suggested that the plural title may be linked somehow with Thrasyllus, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-25&quot; name=&quot;nh8-25&quot; id=&quot;nh8-25&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[25] See Hatzimichali (2012) 73; Baltes (1993) 202. Neither lacks for (...)' &gt;25&lt;/a&gt;] since Diogenes Laertius (3.57) reports that this latter counted up to 56 dialogues of Plato by dividing the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;into ten and the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;into twelve. Even so, the term &#8216;dialogue' must surely be wrong here, as the number would include the collection of thirteen &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Epistles&lt;/i&gt; (counted as one). Thrasyllus was thus presumably counting papyrus scrolls. The count is only undertaken in the context of the tetralogies, associated with Thrasyllus both by Diogenes (3.56) and by Albinus (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prologue &lt;/i&gt;4), and the tetralogies themselves count the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;only once. The title of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;remains singular at D.L. 3.56, 3.60, and 3.62 (twice). Finally, the idea that these works tackled the separate books of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; might be taken to imply that all or most books were treated exegetically, but it is scarcely credible that Manaichmus' three-book work about the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;could be treating so much material. Indeed the failure of all three authors to attract the attention of the Neoplatonists suggests that their contribution did not seriously overlap with the interests of later Platonism. From what little the Suda tells us about Onosander we would expect a practical work, with a possible emphasis on the military arrangements. And it is difficult (but not impossible) to imagine a professed Eclectic like Potamo embarking upon a complete set of lectures on a very long work of Plato. Could it not be, then, that these exegetes are using the plural &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;politeiai &lt;/i&gt;for the same reason as Aristotle and the Antiatticista, because it is a type of Platonic subject matter to which they are referring rather than a single dialogue? It is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;possible&lt;/i&gt; that all had written works that compared the positions of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt; on certain matters of constitutional arrangement.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;It is clear, I believe, that prior to chapter 34 of Alcinous' &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Didascalicus&lt;/i&gt; (from the second century AD perhaps) there had been some discussion of the different types of constitution supposedly found in Plato, with the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;non-foundational &lt;/i&gt;(&#7936;&#957;&#965;&#960;&#972;&#952;&#949;&#964;&#959;&#962;) constitution&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; &lt;/i&gt;being the subject matter of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; and two kinds of constitution that work upon pre-existing foundations (&#7952;&#958; &#8017;&#960;&#959;&#952;&#941;&#963;&#949;&#969;&#962;) being the subject of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Epistles&lt;/i&gt;. Interestingly, this division and its terminology had its roots in the fourth book of Aristotle's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politics&lt;/i&gt; (1288b21-39), before mention of Plato's &#8216;constitutions' is made at 1293b1. It is certain that Alcinous is crediting Plato with outlining a plurality of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;politeiai &lt;/i&gt;(188.8-9, 188.36), and unlikely that this was an innovation of his own.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Frankly it is difficult to make any decision on the basis of such slender evidence, but the principal conclusion that I would draw is that one should avoid referring to these philosophers as authors of &#8216;commentaries on the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;'. Even if they were, that is not what we are told about them.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;iv. Platonists after Proclus and the interpretation of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;This is no longer what the plural means when we reach the Alexandrian Platonists who followed Ammonius, son of Hermeias. Ammonius himself, like Proclus if unlike Proclus' biographer Marinus (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;VProc. &lt;/i&gt;14), does not seem to use the plural to indicate a title, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-26&quot; name=&quot;nh8-26&quot; id=&quot;nh8-26&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[26] Note that there is a plural at II.227.3 which translators concur in (...)' &gt;26&lt;/a&gt;] but Olympiodorus wavers. The title appears only in the singular in the commentaries on the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Alcibiades &lt;/i&gt;and the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedo&lt;/i&gt;, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-27&quot; name=&quot;nh8-27&quot; id=&quot;nh8-27&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[27] I count nine cases in the former, and only one in the latter.' &gt;27&lt;/a&gt;] but once in the singular and once in the plural in that on Aristotle's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meterologica&lt;/i&gt;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-28&quot; name=&quot;nh8-28&quot; id=&quot;nh8-28&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[28] Singular at 144.33, plural at 100.19.' &gt;28&lt;/a&gt;] In the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias-&lt;/i&gt;commentary it is found nine times in the plural and between three and five times in the singular according to one's stance on details. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-29&quot; name=&quot;nh8-29&quot; id=&quot;nh8-29&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[29] At 41.14 it is not clear that this is a title, and at 100.19 it is (...)' &gt;29&lt;/a&gt;] At 241.4-242.4 we have a microcosm of this situation, with three plurals and two singulars, including one of each at 241.12! Some inconsistency is perhaps not unexpected in a commentary &#8216;from the voice'. In the related, but anonymous, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prolegomena to Plato's Philosophy&lt;/i&gt; there are four singulars and perhaps five plurals. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-30&quot; name=&quot;nh8-30&quot; id=&quot;nh8-30&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[30] One must allow that 17.29 may be a joint reference to Republic and (...)' &gt;30&lt;/a&gt;] In other authors of this school, we find Pseudo-Elias having plurals at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Isag&lt;/i&gt;. 14.22.26 and 22.44.17, followed by singulars at 22.44.18 and 23, while Philoponus has two plurals in the commentary on Nicomachus, of which 32.1 is a genuine reference to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;, and 15.53 actually refers to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;. Asclepius also has the plural at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;in Nicomachum &lt;/i&gt;11.68. It may be relevant that the important early manuscript Parisinus A has the plural title, for Westerink feels that this owes its origin to this early manuscript's having been influenced by an Alexandrian exemplar. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-31&quot; name=&quot;nh8-31&quot; id=&quot;nh8-31&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[31] Westerink (1981), 115.' &gt;31&lt;/a&gt;] It does not of course indicate the true title of the work.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;The sudden explosion of unambiguous references to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;in late antiquity demands an explanation. The special prominence of Olympiodorus here, and above all of his &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary on Plato's Gorgias&lt;/i&gt;, offers a clue. The &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;is seldom far away from Olympiodorus' mind in this commentary, as has been previously observed. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-32&quot; name=&quot;nh8-32&quot; id=&quot;nh8-32&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[32] Tarrant (1997).' &gt;32&lt;/a&gt;] &#8216;Constitutional happiness' had become the key link between &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;and&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; Gorgias&lt;/i&gt;, and the emphasis was firmly on the inner constitution within the soul of the individual, mirroring that of the state (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;in Gorg&lt;/i&gt;. proem, 4-5). Whereas Proclus had tended to stress that constitution of soul and state were one and the same (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;in Remp&lt;/i&gt;. I.11.12-13), Olympiodorus prefers to see an analogous relationship between the two. So whereas for Proclus it was probably more accurate to see the constitution that is the subject of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;as one constitution with two manifestations, in Olympiodorus the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;is indeed a work that promotes &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;two&lt;/i&gt; constitutions. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-33&quot; name=&quot;nh8-33&quot; id=&quot;nh8-33&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[33] There may be another factor that applies here. Proclus, presumably (...)' &gt;33&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hence we have found a theoretical basis for believing that one would correctly refer to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;by the plural title &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai&lt;/i&gt;. Of course books VIII-IX had spoken about a plurality of inferior constitutions, both civic and individual, but they were not &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's &lt;/i&gt;constitutions. Up until this period the conventional title had not yet seemed a problem for the philosophers. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb8-34&quot; name=&quot;nh8-34&quot; id=&quot;nh8-34&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[34] It is noticeable that in the passage of Olympiodorus&amp;#39; Commentary on (...)' &gt;34&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Conclusion&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;For these reasons it would seem to be illegitimate to expect that the early imperial &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;hypomn&#234;mata&lt;/i&gt; that used the plural &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai &lt;/i&gt;should be using it for the same reason as the Alexandrian Neoplatonists (particularly Olympiodorus) did centuries later. They simply did not have the same theoretical basis for doing so. To the best of our knowledge Marinus is the first Neoplatonist known to employ the plural title, in his &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Life of Proclus &lt;/i&gt;of AD485-6. Nor can we be sure that he did so for the same reason as Olympiodorus and some of his Alexandrian colleagues. Before the fifth century AD the default explanation of any title-like reference to Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;politeiai &lt;/i&gt;should be that it is a reference to the political systems as found in both the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;and the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;. Such a hypothesis makes best sense of the reference in Aristotle's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politics&lt;/i&gt;, helps to explain the active voice and the omission of a book-number in the Antiatticista, and does not run counter to what we know of exegetical works involving the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;. &lt;br \&gt;&lt;br \&gt;
Harold TARRANT
University of Newcastle&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;hr /&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_notes'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-1&quot; name=&quot;nb8-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-1&quot;&gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] Details in Slings (2003); note that Slings misleadingly reports the Antiatticist as preserving the plural title, without indicating that this was written only in one of a great many citations in the work.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-2&quot; name=&quot;nb8-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-2&quot;&gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] Westerink (1981); D&#246;rrie &amp; Baltes (1993), 203-4; Hatzimichali (2012) 72-73.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-3&quot; name=&quot;nb8-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-3&quot;&gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] Bekker (1814). [Text of Antiatticist = 1.75&#8211;116] The surviving work is abridged (Lee forthcoming), with resultant problems in identifying quite what the Antiatticist himself was trying to say. The best internal indication of a date occurs at 79.31-32 reads as follows: &#8127;&#913;&#952;&#949;&#964;&#949;&#8150;&#957; &#966;&#945;&#963;&#8054;&#957; &#959;&#8016; &#948;&#949;&#8150;&#957; &#955;&#941;&#947;&#949;&#953;&#957;, &#7936;&#955;&#955;' &#7936;&#957;&#945;&#953;&#961;&#949;&#8150;&#957;. &#7984;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#957; &#959;&#8022;&#957; &#8001; &#947;&#961;&#945;&#956;&#956;&#945;&#964;&#953;&#954;&#8056;&#962; &#956;&#941;&#956;&#966;&#949;&#964;&#945;&#953; &#7952;&#960;&#8054; &#964;&#8135; &#955;&#941;&#958;&#949;&#953; &#8127;&#913;&#961;&#943;&#963;&#964;&#945;&#961;&#967;&#959;&#957;. In Tarrant (2012), 72 with n.55, I argue that for &#7984;&#945;&#963;&#953;&#957; &#959;&#8022;&#957; we should read &#8127;&#921;&#940;&#963;&#969;&#957; (perhaps with &#959;&#8022;&#957;), referring to Iason the grammarian mentioned by the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Etymologicum Magnum &lt;/i&gt;(184.27), while Aristarchus is the Samothracian (c.220-143BC), successor to Aristophanes of Byzantium. A date any time up to the second century AD is theoretically possible.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-4&quot; name=&quot;nb8-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-4&quot;&gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] Tarrant (2012), 55 and 63.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-5&quot; name=&quot;nb8-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-5&quot;&gt;5&lt;/a&gt;] One might also consider the possibility that some alternative word for &#8216;build' had been cited before dropping out, for instance &#954;&#945;&#964;&#945;&#963;&#954;&#949;&#965;&#940;&#950;&#949;&#953;&#957; (for building a city at 557d3), but the omission of an etymologically unrelated form would be harder to explain, as would the presence of its entry at this point of the largely alphabetic lexicon.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-6&quot; name=&quot;nb8-6&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-6&quot;&gt;6&lt;/a&gt;] This should have been the third book, III.2.2 or 21.1; the previous form was found at VII.6.4.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-7&quot; name=&quot;nb8-7&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-7&quot;&gt;7&lt;/a&gt;] Besides the omission of the nu, note the Antiatticista's default accusative for a form that had appeared in the nominative in Herodotus.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-8&quot; name=&quot;nb8-8&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-8&quot;&gt;8&lt;/a&gt;] Rather than a diligent epitomator carefully excising the same kind of unwanted material throughout, it seems that this would be a person who has increasing doubts about the overall use of the work in question as he approaches the end of the task.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-9&quot; name=&quot;nb8-9&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-9&quot;&gt;9&lt;/a&gt;] Tarrant (2012), 60 n.24.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-10&quot; name=&quot;nb8-10&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-10&quot;&gt;10&lt;/a&gt;] Tarrant (2012), 57.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-11&quot; name=&quot;nb8-11&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-11&quot;&gt;11&lt;/a&gt;] Here again I mention the single exception of the work's being cited as &#8216;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politics&lt;/i&gt;' at 100.20.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-12&quot; name=&quot;nb8-12&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-12&quot;&gt;12&lt;/a&gt;] This possibility arises only if the six-book arrangement differed significantly in content from the ten-book work, as Tarrant (2012) has argued; but the author shows no other signs of awareness that a fuller version exists. This should be balanced against the fact that he shows no signs of having studied &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-13&quot; name=&quot;nb8-13&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-13&quot;&gt;13&lt;/a&gt;] Both examples of the active in &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charmides &lt;/i&gt;(161e, 165d) also involve the actual act of building, though this is not so clear at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt; 514b, where one may only assume that the 1st person plural subject will include the actual builder.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-14&quot; name=&quot;nb8-14&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-14&quot;&gt;14&lt;/a&gt;] Thomas Magister, p. 214.13-16 Ritschl (s.v. &#954;&#945;&#964;&#945;&#963;&#954;&#949;&#965;&#940;&#950;&#969;), shows that grammarians had discussed the correct use of the active and middle voices of &#959;&#7984;&#954;&#959;&#948;&#959;&#956;&#949;&#8150;&#957; in relation to Demosthenes, while a scholion&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; &lt;/i&gt;on &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Iliad &lt;/i&gt;24.281a shows that this example had already been used to illustrate the meaning of the Homeric middle at a time when Homeric scholarship had flourished.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-15&quot; name=&quot;nb8-15&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-15&quot;&gt;15&lt;/a&gt;] For &#8216;first' it is clear from the citation of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep&lt;/i&gt; 423c5-6 that &#8216;fourth' should be read if the usual ten-book arrangement is being cited; for details see Dyck (1985), 79-80, 83-84.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-16&quot; name=&quot;nb8-16&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-16&quot;&gt;16&lt;/a&gt;] Dyck (1985), 83-84.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-17&quot; name=&quot;nb8-17&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-17&quot;&gt;17&lt;/a&gt;] For the special problems of dating any individual pieces of text within lexical works see Bonelli (2008), 25: &#8216;aucun argument de la forme &#8216;Notre texte du &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lexique&lt;/i&gt; fait r&#233;f&#233;rence &#224; X: donc Tim&#233;e a &#233;crit apr&#232;s X' n'est solide, car il est toujours possible que la r&#233;f&#233;rence &#224; X soit un ajout tardif.' One must expect common material with no acknowledgment of borrowing, and allow that alien material may have been added. A vitally important modern case of such additions is the TLG text of Timaeus' &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platonic Lexicon&lt;/i&gt; that uses the &#8216;text' of Baiter et al. (1839), which has been &#8216;restored' to proper alphabetic order and infused with much alien material from lexica and Byzantine encyclopaedias (Bonelli, 2008, 9). Baiter and his colleagues had in fact distinguished other material by the use of a different font. Hence the entry in the Antiatticista that we have dealt with will also appear (falsely) as a passage of Timaeus Sophista! In this appendix (970-1010) appear 9 further glosses of a linguistic character that appear to refer to &#8216;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republics&lt;/i&gt;'. Their narrow range suggests a single source, which is ultimately the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Eclogues &lt;/i&gt;attributed to the very late Thomas Magister, the standard edition of which is Ritschl (1832). Thomas continues the Atticist tradition, drawing on earlier authors extensively (Lee 2013). The problem is that one cannot date the cluster of references to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politeiai&lt;/i&gt;. None of this cluster cite books three to ten. Some of those that cite a book relate to specific passages in &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;I or II, though 995b11 does not obviously do so, 986a12 seems is citing via Aristides' speech &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Against Plato on Rhetoric &lt;/i&gt;11.27, and 986a15 actually relates to&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; Theaetetus&lt;/i&gt; 143a4. At 975b7 one reads &#8216;in one of his &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republics&lt;/i&gt;' as if the intention was to say &#8216;either &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;', and the quotation is imprecise enough to leave doubts as to which work is cited.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-18&quot; name=&quot;nb8-18&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-18&quot;&gt;18&lt;/a&gt;] Westerink (1981) 112; I ignored here the possibility that there has been a gloss at this point, which affects my argument only if the gloss is late enough to have been unknown to the Antiatticista.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-19&quot; name=&quot;nb8-19&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-19&quot;&gt;19&lt;/a&gt;] The most exact parallel to Aristotle's group of four is not at 710e3-6, which omits aristocracy and includes tyranny, but at 712c2-5 where Cleinias is speaking, and explains why he omits tyranny.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-20&quot; name=&quot;nb8-20&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-20&quot;&gt;20&lt;/a&gt;] See D&#246;rrie-Baltes (1993) 80.1, 3, 5-7.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-21&quot; name=&quot;nb8-21&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-21&quot;&gt;21&lt;/a&gt;] If the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary on the Republic &lt;/i&gt;(D&#246;rrie-Baltes III 80.6 = Theon, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Expositio&lt;/i&gt; 146.3-4 Hiller) was not primarily mathematical, then the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Expositio &lt;/i&gt;might almost be regarded as the required sort of work owing to the liberal use it makes of various passages of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-22&quot; name=&quot;nb8-22&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-22&quot;&gt;22&lt;/a&gt;] The identity of the two is unproven; the fragment (D&#246;rrie-Baltes III 80.7) is derived from a work relating to mechanics (Ps-Hero) and purportedly giving a definition of geometry, while the parallel passage in the anonymous &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary on the Theaetetus &lt;/i&gt;(col. XV) is treating &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;simple &lt;/i&gt;as opposed to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;systematic &lt;/i&gt;knowledge in particular: a distinction relevant to mathematics, which is prominent in the context. Taurus may have been commenting on the epistemology of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;VI-VII, as Mansfeld suggested (1983, 61).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-23&quot; name=&quot;nb8-23&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-23&quot;&gt;23&lt;/a&gt;] By &#8216;regular commentary' I am thinking of a lemmatic commentary dealing primarily with philosophic issues; we cannot be certain what a primarily linguistic commentary on the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;(such as Schironi 2005, especially 431, attributes to Aristarchus) might have looked like.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-24&quot; name=&quot;nb8-24&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-24&quot;&gt;24&lt;/a&gt;] It should be assumed that Potamo is the Alexandrian &#8216;Eclectic' discussed by Diogenes Laertius (1.21), whose testimonies are discussed fully in Hatzimichali (2012).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-25&quot; name=&quot;nb8-25&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-25&quot;&gt;25&lt;/a&gt;] See Hatzimichali (2012) 73; Baltes (1993) 202. Neither lacks for alternative explanations.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-26&quot; name=&quot;nb8-26&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-26&quot;&gt;26&lt;/a&gt;] Note that there is a plural at II.227.3 which translators concur in seeing as a reference to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;VI 757a; hence this is further confirmation of the plural to be used inclusively of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-27&quot; name=&quot;nb8-27&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-27&quot;&gt;27&lt;/a&gt;] I count nine cases in the former, and only one in the latter.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-28&quot; name=&quot;nb8-28&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-28&quot;&gt;28&lt;/a&gt;] Singular at 144.33, plural at 100.19.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-29&quot; name=&quot;nb8-29&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-29&quot;&gt;29&lt;/a&gt;] At 41.14 it is not clear that this is a title, and at 100.19 it is used to refer to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;709e. This may be either a simple mistake resulting from a slip in oral delivery (for the index to Westerink's 1970 text shows that Olympiodorus was quite familiar with &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;, as also with book IV of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;) or a case where the term is used, albeit confusingly, to mean simply &#8216;constitution'.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-30&quot; name=&quot;nb8-30&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-30&quot;&gt;30&lt;/a&gt;] One must allow that 17.29 may be a joint reference to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-31&quot; name=&quot;nb8-31&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-31&quot;&gt;31&lt;/a&gt;] Westerink (1981), 115.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-32&quot; name=&quot;nb8-32&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-32&quot;&gt;32&lt;/a&gt;] Tarrant (1997).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-33&quot; name=&quot;nb8-33&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-33&quot;&gt;33&lt;/a&gt;] There may be another factor that applies here. Proclus, presumably following Iamblichus, had rejected the inclusion of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic &lt;/i&gt;and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laws &lt;/i&gt;in his restricted curriculum precisely on the grounds that each is a plurality of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt;, as reported in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prolegomena &lt;/i&gt;(26.3). In this context the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prolegomena &lt;/i&gt;employs the plural title.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh8-34&quot; name=&quot;nb8-34&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 8-34&quot;&gt;34&lt;/a&gt;] It is noticeable that in the passage of Olympiodorus' &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Commentary on Aristotle's Meteorologica &lt;/i&gt;the one passage that uses the plural title (100.19-24) is actually discussing the way that the ideal constitution relates to the discussion of justice that had been begun. However, it would be very difficult to establish any clear pattern of reference in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prolegomena &lt;/i&gt;or the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;in Gorg&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_ps'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Baiter, J.G., Orelli, J.C., and Winckelmann, A.W. 1839. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platonis opera quae feruntur omnia&lt;/i&gt;, Turin: Meyer &amp; Zeller, 970-1010 (Timaeus Sophista, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lexicon Platonicum&lt;/i&gt;).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Bekker, Immanuel (ed.). 1814. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Anecdota Graeca&lt;/i&gt;, Berlin: Nauck. [Text of Antiatticist = I.75&#8211;116]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Bonelli, Maddalena. 2008. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tim&#233;e le Sophiste: Lexique platonicien&lt;/i&gt;, Leiden: Brill.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;D&#246;rrie H. and Baltes M. 1993. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Der Platonismus in der Antike &lt;/i&gt;III, Stuttgart&#8211;Bad Cannstatt: frommann-holzboog, 203-4&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Dyck, Andrew R. 1985. &#8216;Notes on Platonic Lexicography in Antiquity', &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;HSCP &lt;/i&gt;89, 75-88.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hatzimichali, Myrto. 2012. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Potamo of Alexandria and the Emergence of Eclecticism in late Hellenistic Philosophy&lt;/i&gt;, Cambridge: CUP, 72-73.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lee, John A.L. 2013. &#8216;The Atticist Grammarians', in Stanley E. Porter and Andrew W. Pitts&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; &lt;/i&gt;(eds),&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; The Language of the New Testament: Context, History and Development&lt;/i&gt;, Leiden: Brill.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Mansfeld, Jaap. 1983. &#8216;Intuitionism and Formalism: Zeno's Definition of Geometry in a fragment of L. Calvenus Taurus', &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phronesis&lt;/i&gt; 28, 59-74.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ritschl, F. (ed). 1832. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Thomae Magistri sive Theoduli monachi ecloga vocum atticarum&lt;/i&gt;, Halis Saxonum.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Schironi, Francesca. 2005. &#8216;Plato at Alexandria: Aristarchus and the &#8220;Philological Tradition&#8221; of a Philosopher', &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;CQ &lt;/i&gt;55, 423-34.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Slings, S.R. 2003. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platonis Rempublicam&lt;/i&gt;, Oxford: Oxford Classical Texts.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tarrant, Harold. 1997. &#8216;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Politike Eudaimonia&lt;/i&gt;: Olympiodorus on Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;', in K. Boudouris (ed.), &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato's Political Theory and Contemporary Political Thought&lt;/i&gt;, vol. II. Athens. 200-207 (reprinted in H. Tarrant, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;From the Old Academy to Later Neo-Platonism&lt;/i&gt;, Farnham: Ashgate, 2011).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Tarrant, Harold. 2012. &#8216;The Origins and Shape of Plato's Six-Book Republic', &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Antichthon&lt;/i&gt;, 46, 52-78.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Westerink L.G. (ed.). 1970. Olympiodorus, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;In Platonis Gorgiam Commentaria&lt;/i&gt;, Berlin: Teubner.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Westerink, L.G. 1981. &#8216;The Title of Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt;', &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Illinois Classical Studies&lt;/i&gt; 6, 112-115.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
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		<title>4. Socratic Philosophy, Rationalism, and &quot;Obedience&quot;: Decision Making without Divine Intervention</title>
		<link>http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article119</link>
		<guid isPermaLink="true">http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?article119</guid>
		<dc:date>2013-03-24T11:06:08Z</dc:date>
		<dc:format>text/html</dc:format>
		<dc:language>en</dc:language>
		<dc:creator>SENN, Scott J.</dc:creator>



		<description>The main aim of this paper is to explain why Plato's Socrates devotes himself to philosophy. In so doing, I hope also to show that he does not sincerely believe that any of his decisions, about philosophy or anything, involve any kind of divine intervention. As my conclusions are contrary to a good bit of first-rate, recent scholarship on the subject, and also contrary to part of what Socrates himself says in Plato's Apology of Socrates, I think it is especially important to clarify (&amp;hellip;)

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&lt;a href="http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/spip.php?rubrique13" rel="directory"&gt;12. Plato 12 (2012)&lt;/a&gt;


		</description>


 <content:encoded>&lt;div class='rss_texte'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-1&quot; name=&quot;nh9-1&quot; id=&quot;nh9-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[1] For helpful feedback, I am indebted to Ben Bradley, Mark Chekola, Mark (...)' &gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] The main aim of this paper is to explain why Plato's Socrates [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-2&quot; name=&quot;nh9-2&quot; id=&quot;nh9-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[2] My focus is Socrates as Plato depicts him in his &quot;early&quot; dialogues, not (...)' &gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] devotes himself to philosophy. In so doing, I hope also to show that he does not sincerely believe that any of his decisions, about philosophy or anything, involve any kind of divine intervention. As my conclusions are contrary to a good bit of first-rate, recent scholarship on the subject, and also contrary to part of what Socrates himself says in Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology of Socrates&lt;/i&gt;, I think it is especially important to clarify these issues, however repeated commentary (by, again, the best scholars in the field) on the same texts may seem to have exhausted the need for further clarification. Confusion about these issues entails grave misunderstandings of the Socratic philosophy that Plato meant to depict, at least in his &quot;early&quot; dialogues.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Section 1. Socratic Philosophy: Mere Method, or Pursuit of Wisdom and Happiness?&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;It is crucial first to understand what is the nature of philosophizing, according to Socrates, and the fact that, predominantly, his stated reasons for philosophizing do not invoke any god or any command. The prominent place of the oracle story in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;, and its connection there with Socrates' account of his peculiar &quot;practice (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;pragma&lt;/i&gt;)&quot;, has led some able commentators to conclude that Plato's Socrates is not even a philosopher [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-3&quot; name=&quot;nh9-3&quot; id=&quot;nh9-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[3] J. Adam 1916, ix' &gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] or that his &quot;philosophizing&quot; does not involve the pursuit of genuine wisdom. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-4&quot; name=&quot;nh9-4&quot; id=&quot;nh9-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[4] Forster 2006, 17-19; Weiss 2006, 243-244, 252' &gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] In fact, such conclusions clash with most of what Socrates says about philosophy in Plato's early dialogues generally and in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; in particular. I shall return to the matter of the oracle, but in order first to establish what is philosophizing for Socrates, consider a familiar passage from the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;div class=&quot;spip_poesie&quot;&gt;
&lt;div&gt;. . . This actually happens to be the greatest good for a human&#8212;to make accounts/statements/arguments (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt;) each day about virtue and about the other things concerning which you hear me discussing and examining myself and others&#8212;and . . . the unexamined life is not livable for a human. . . . (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 38a) [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-5&quot; name=&quot;nh9-5&quot; id=&quot;nh9-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[5] Unless otherwise noted, translations are my own, based on the Oxford (...)' &gt;5&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;It is fairly uncontroversial to infer that what Socrates here calls &quot;making &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt;&quot; and &quot;discussing and examining&quot; (cf. 23b-c, 29e, 33c) are the main activities of what he elsewhere terms simply &quot;philosophizing&quot; (28e5, 29d5). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-6&quot; name=&quot;nh9-6&quot; id=&quot;nh9-6&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[6] Cf. Weiss 2006, 247. Interestingly, the &quot;discussing, asking and (...)' &gt;6&lt;/a&gt;] Nor is it very controversial to infer that Socrates uses the term &quot;philosophizing&quot; to refer to the core activities involved in the attempt to acquire virtue. But as this latter inference has recently come under formidable criticism, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-7&quot; name=&quot;nh9-7&quot; id=&quot;nh9-7&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[7] Weiss 2006; Forster 2006 and 2007.' &gt;7&lt;/a&gt;] and as the story of the oracle in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; (20c-23c) rather obscures it, it would not hurt to review the evidence.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;First of all, when Socrates characterizes making &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt;, discussing, and examining as &quot;philosophizing&quot;, nothing suggests that &quot;philosophizing&quot; simply &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;means&lt;/i&gt; making &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt;, discussing, and examining. Michael Forster considers the same passages just cited and concludes that philosophizing is being &quot;virtually equated with cross-questioning oneself and others&#8230;&quot; (2006, 17). But other evidence suggests that that goes too far. It is plain that such are the main activities of the philosopher, according to Socrates; but they are not what he thinks philosophy &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;is&lt;/i&gt;, plain and simple; for, it is critical to note, the activities are &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;goal&lt;/i&gt;-driven. Of course a philosopher discusses, cross-examines, makes &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt; about virtue, lacks wisdom, and is aware of lacking it. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-8&quot; name=&quot;nh9-8&quot; id=&quot;nh9-8&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[8] Forster correctly says that Socrates&amp;#39; characterizing himself as a (...)' &gt;8&lt;/a&gt;] But insofar as one is a &quot;philosopher&quot;, one &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;wants&lt;/i&gt; wisdom and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;pursues&lt;/i&gt; wisdom. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-9&quot; name=&quot;nh9-9&quot; id=&quot;nh9-9&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[9] Weiss appears to acknowledge this: &quot;. . . The more philosophical among (...)' &gt;9&lt;/a&gt;] In ancient Greek, this is virtually a tautology, prompting Socrates in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lysis&lt;/i&gt; to assert that &quot;. . . the ones who are already wise no longer philosophize. . .&quot; (218a; cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symp.&lt;/i&gt; 204a). A philosopher &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;philosophizes&lt;/i&gt;&#8212;i.e., loves wisdom (even if wisdom does not love the philosopher back; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lys.&lt;/i&gt; 212d5-e1). &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthydemus&lt;/i&gt; 288d8 actually has: &quot;&#8230;Philosophy is acquiring knowledge (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;H&#275;&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;de&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ge philosophia kt&#275;sis epist&#275;m&#275;s&lt;/i&gt;).&quot; That translation is rather too literal. Socrates must mean that philosophy is the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;process&lt;/i&gt; of acquiring knowledge, just as the &quot;ascent to reality&quot; in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Republic&lt;/i&gt; is called &quot;philosophy&quot; (521c). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-10&quot; name=&quot;nh9-10&quot; id=&quot;nh9-10&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[10] Forster notes Euthyd. 288d (2007, 17 n. 40), but apparently does not (...)' &gt;10&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;As such isolated passages could perhaps be explained away, we should consider more substantial evidence: Socrates thinks that if we want happiness (and we all do), it is &quot;necessary&quot; to love wisdom&#8212;i.e., to strive to acquire wisdom (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 282a1-b6, c8-d1, e2-4, 288d6-7, 289c7-8)&#8212;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;genuine&lt;/i&gt; wisdom, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;genuine&lt;/i&gt; virtue, because to do well&#8212;to act correctly (at least consistently enough to be happy) requires wisdom. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-11&quot; name=&quot;nh9-11&quot; id=&quot;nh9-11&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[11] Cf. Hipp. min. 366d3-368b1 and Gorg. 466e, 509d-e. Although Socrates (...)' &gt;11&lt;/a&gt;] We find a related view attributed to Socrates in a number of passages in the earlier dialogues: viz., that one cannot be genuinely good without being genuinely wise. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-12&quot; name=&quot;nh9-12&quot; id=&quot;nh9-12&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[12] This is pretty explicit at Lach. 194d1-3, Hipp. min. 366d3-368b1, Lys. (...)' &gt;12&lt;/a&gt;] Since Socrates' view is that we all ought first and foremost to care for our souls' (i.e., ourselves) being as good as possible (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 29d-30a, 30a-b, 36c, 39d, 41e), he must think we ought to care about becoming as wise as possible&#8212;which of course he actually also states (29e1, 36c7). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-13&quot; name=&quot;nh9-13&quot; id=&quot;nh9-13&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[13] In the Apology, as in other dialogues, phron&#275;sis stands for genuine (...)' &gt;13&lt;/a&gt;] In this way, we should take quite seriously Socrates' claim, in various early dialogues, that he himself wants to have genuine wisdom (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charm.&lt;/i&gt; 166c7-d6, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 201a2-6, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 274b2-3 and 285c2-4, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hipp. min.&lt;/i&gt; 369d2-e2, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 348c5-e5; cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 20c1-2, 22b5). Even if we do not think Socrates is altogether hopeful of getting it straightaway from the interlocutors present at the time of the claim, there is substantial evidence for thinking that Socrates' hope is that such wisdom is attainable together, &quot;in common&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 201a, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 348d, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charm.&lt;/i&gt; 166c-d, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg.&lt;/i&gt; 505e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 86b-c), i.e., in dialogue with others. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-14&quot; name=&quot;nh9-14&quot; id=&quot;nh9-14&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[14] Forster, on the other hand, seems to require that Socrates&amp;#39; claim is no (...)' &gt;14&lt;/a&gt;] He repeatedly makes it clear that such is his paramount aim in discussing and questioning (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charm.&lt;/i&gt; 166c-d, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hipp. min.&lt;/i&gt; 369d-e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 348c-e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg.&lt;/i&gt; 453c1-4, 457e3-458b1). This is why Socrates consistently evinces a marked preference for discussing with educated gentlemen (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 347c-e), those reputed for wisdom (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hipp. min.&lt;/i&gt; 369d-e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 348d-e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg.&lt;/i&gt; 447a, 448d,&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt; Meno&lt;/i&gt; 89e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 23b), and wealthy adolescents who have philosophical potential (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charm.&lt;/i&gt; 153d, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 180c, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lys.&lt;/i&gt; 203b-204b, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 23c, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Theaet.&lt;/i&gt; 143d). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-15&quot; name=&quot;nh9-15&quot; id=&quot;nh9-15&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[15] Despite this, there is sometimes rather overblown significance (...)' &gt;15&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;All of us who are not already completely wise, then, according to Socrates, ought to be philosophers, since philosophy is necessary for virtue (&quot;goodness&quot;) and wisdom, and hence necessary for happiness. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-16&quot; name=&quot;nh9-16&quot; id=&quot;nh9-16&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[16] For this reason, Socrates&amp;#39; characterizing the main activities of (...)' &gt;16&lt;/a&gt;] And it seems that this is at least part of what Socrates is attempting to &quot;persuade&quot; the Athenians of in his typical encounters with them. In the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthydemus&lt;/i&gt; we find what appears to be an example of one of Socrates' habitual exhortations: Socrates asks the sophists Euthydemus and Dionysodorus, who claim expertise in making people good (273d-e with 274d-e), to make the young Cleinias &quot;turn toward&quot; philosophy (275a), where this is meant as a plea to get Cleinias to care about virtue, i.e. about his becoming a good man and to learn what he must learn to be so. (In fact, at 275a &quot;philosophy&quot; and &quot;attention to virtue&quot; appear to be co-referential if not synonymous.) When the brothers fail, Socrates himself gets Cleinias to turn toward philosophy (282d, 288d) by getting him to desire wisdom as necessary for happiness. That this is typical of Socrates' exhortation of Athenian youths is corroborated by &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lysis&lt;/i&gt; 210 and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Protagoras&lt;/i&gt; 311a-314b. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-17&quot; name=&quot;nh9-17&quot; id=&quot;nh9-17&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[17] Weiss is perhaps correct that &quot;there are no instances of direct (...)' &gt;17&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;This is what the &quot;attention to virtue&quot; (31b5, 41e5)&#8212;or, alternatively, &quot;attention to the soul&quot; (30b2) or &quot;self&quot; (36c7)&#8212;in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; is all about too, and it is just what Socrates there is himself committed to and what he is &quot;exhorting&quot; and &quot;persuading&quot; the Athenians to do throughout the speech. It is true enough that that does not exactly leap off the pages of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; as it virtually does in other dialogues. A careful look, however, does reveal the same view in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; itself. Again, his concern there is clearly about the soul's being &quot;good&quot; (sc., virtuous)&#8212;in other words, as &quot;wise (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;phronimos&lt;/i&gt;)&quot; as possible (29e1, 36c7). As the above account of &quot;philosophy&quot; indicates, we simply misunderstand the Socrates of the early dialogues if we interpret the &quot;wisdom (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;phron&#275;sis&lt;/i&gt;)&quot; of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; as the mere &quot;human&quot; wisdom involving only awareness of the limits of one's knowledge, if only because it is from the wisdom to which he exhorts everyone to attend (29e1)&#8212;but &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; from mere awareness of the limits of one's knowledge&#8212;that &quot;money and all the other things [come to be] good for humans both in private and in public&quot; (30b). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-18&quot; name=&quot;nh9-18&quot; id=&quot;nh9-18&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[18] The translation is based on Burnet&amp;#39;s perceptive gloss (1924, (...)' &gt;18&lt;/a&gt;] The point is made explicitly in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charmides&lt;/i&gt;: &quot;For it is not knowledge of knowledges and of lack of knowledges [whose peculiar product (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ergon&lt;/i&gt;) is substantively beneficial for us]; rather, [it is knowledge] of good and bad&quot; (174d). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-19&quot; name=&quot;nh9-19&quot; id=&quot;nh9-19&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[19] Cf. Senn 2005, 5.' &gt;19&lt;/a&gt;] For this reason, awareness of the limits of one's knowledge may indeed &quot;profit&quot; one (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 22e), but only in that way explained in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;: i.e. it is profitable as a prerequisite to seeking greater, substantive knowledge (84b-c). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-20&quot; name=&quot;nh9-20&quot; id=&quot;nh9-20&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[20] When Socrates&amp;#39; accomplishment (ergon) of merely getting (some) (...)' &gt;20&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Again, the same point is not quite as explicit in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;, but it is indeed there. Though his main focus in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; is on what he calls &quot;human wisdom&quot;, there are telling indications that Socrates is, even in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;, concerned with having not merely &quot;human&quot; wisdom, but genuine wisdom. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-21&quot; name=&quot;nh9-21&quot; id=&quot;nh9-21&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[21] So I disagree with Weiss&amp;#39; view that Socrates in the Apology is &quot;not a (...)' &gt;21&lt;/a&gt;] One is his reference to &quot;truth&quot; at 29e2, appearing on a list which also includes &quot;wisdom (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;phron&#275;sis&lt;/i&gt;)&quot; and improvement of the soul (cf. &quot;truth&quot; at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 48a7). And (assuming that soul = self) we know, from the discussion at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 20a-c, that concern for substantive improvement of soul (his paramount concern in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;) is naturally connected, in Socrates' mind, to the quest for a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;teacher&lt;/i&gt; who has genuine wisdom and knowledge and can instill genuine virtue in students. All this sounds very much like his own quest for a teacher (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 201a, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphro&lt;/i&gt; 5a, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 274b, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 96d-e), self-improvement through learning (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charm.&lt;/i&gt; 166c-d, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hipp. min.&lt;/i&gt; 369d-e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 348c-e), and his &quot;attention to virtue&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 45d, 51a), which he expresses in similar terms in other dialogues. Indeed, at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 20c1-2 Socrates claims that he would &quot;preen&quot; himself and &quot;luxuriate&quot; if only he had the knowledge that the sophist Euenus advertises as having and teaching: viz., knowledge about how to be a virtuous/good human. Furthermore, in his account of his examination of the poets, he claims that he initially hoped to &quot;learn&quot; something from their poems, assuming they were genuinely wise (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 22b). One further indication that Socrates in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; expects, ideally, to learn from philosophical conversation is at 41c: &quot;. . . it would be an overwhelming [amount] of happiness to discuss with and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;to be with&lt;/i&gt; and to examine . . .&quot; legendarily wise men and women like Agamemnon, Odysseus, and Sisyphus if he had the opportunity (my emphasis). &quot;To be with (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;suneinai&lt;/i&gt;)&quot; was the regular expression for &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;to be a student of&lt;/i&gt; (cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 19e-20a; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 186e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 316c, 318a; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg.&lt;/i&gt; 455d; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 92b; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedo&lt;/i&gt; 61d). Again, whether or not Socrates really believed any of these specific individuals were genuinely wise is beside the point; the point has to do with the real aim of philosophical conversation. All of this points to the same, largely self-centered concern for having genuine wisdom which Socrates repeatedly claims to desire in other early dialogues.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;But what of the assertion, made in the course of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;'s oracle story, that all human wisdom is worthless, whereas &quot;the god&quot; has genuine wisdom? Certainly Socrates is trying at this point in his speech to convince the Athenians that he never found anyone among them who is genuinely wise. As usual, he (disingenuously or not) includes himself in this estimation. So he tells them that &quot;human wisdom is worth something little&#8212;actually, nothing&quot; (23a7), [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-22&quot; name=&quot;nh9-22&quot; id=&quot;nh9-22&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[22] A. Adam 1914 ad loc.: &quot;&#954;&#945;&#943; corrects &#8000;&#955;&#943;&#947;&#959;&#965; and introduces a stronger word.&quot; (...)' &gt;22&lt;/a&gt;] and that &quot;really the god is wise&quot; (23a5-6), by which he may have meant that &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; the god is wise. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-23&quot; name=&quot;nh9-23&quot; id=&quot;nh9-23&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[23] Taylor glosses the phrase: &quot;In reality god [i.e. god alone] is wise. . (...)' &gt;23&lt;/a&gt;] A number of excellent commentators [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-24&quot; name=&quot;nh9-24&quot; id=&quot;nh9-24&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[24] Vlastos 1994, 64; McPherran 1985, 301; Reeve 1989, 149-150; Reeve (...)' &gt;24&lt;/a&gt;] argue that Socrates considered the wisdom that he and all humans lack to be unattainable in whole or in part by humans. But Socrates' actual words at 23a-b seem to require no more than the view that what humans happen to have&#8212;that which passes for &quot;wisdom&quot; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-25&quot; name=&quot;nh9-25&quot; id=&quot;nh9-25&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[25] There is a parallel here with Socrates&amp;#39; (probably intentionally) (...)' &gt;25&lt;/a&gt;]&#8212;is worthless, not really wisdom. Some of his words in fact suggest that he may not even have wished to go &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; far: what he says is that &quot;&#8230;I'm afraid (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kinduneuei&lt;/i&gt;), you men, that really the god is wise&#8230;.&quot; The Greek &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kinduneuei&lt;/i&gt; certainly suggests &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; kind of qualification, usually rendered as &quot;it is probable&quot; in English. Moreover, Socrates does not even actually say that &quot;only&quot; the god is wise. He does say &quot;human wisdom&#8230;is worthless&quot;, though this too is governed by the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;kinduneuei&lt;/i&gt; of 23a5. Furthermore, &quot;worthless&quot; need not mean &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;inherently&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;inevitably worthless&lt;/i&gt;. And such a reading certainly is unlikely, given the rest of what Socrates says in the speech and in other early dialogues (the exhortations to virtue already reviewed). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-26&quot; name=&quot;nh9-26&quot; id=&quot;nh9-26&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[26] Benson&amp;#39;s arguments in favor of the kind of interpretation that I here (...)' &gt;26&lt;/a&gt;] It is worth noting that Socrates actually says in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; that he has made the Athenians&#8212;or some of them anyway&#8212;&quot;happy&quot; (36d10), which (interpreted literally), together with the success-requires-wisdom doctrine, suggests that it is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;possible&lt;/i&gt; for humans to be happy and to have genuine wisdom.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;If Socrates in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; did not really believe that we ought to try to achieve genuine wisdom&#8212;indeed if he believed it was humanly unattainable&#8212;then it is hard to understand why he was so concerned with human &quot;improvement&quot; or what he can have meant by it. Socrates certainly thought that awareness of one's own ignorance was &quot;profitable&quot; in some sense (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 22e); but he did not consider this awareness genuine wisdom, since he acknowledged that it certainly was not sufficient for doing well (see the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; protreptic passages and especially &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charm.&lt;/i&gt; 174d). It is true that Plato sometimes depicts Socrates as denying that goodness comes from learning, teaching, or any kind of &quot;human attention&quot; (e.g. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 328e), but there are ample reasons for concluding that Socrates is not to be taken seriously in such cases. Among the reasons are his otherwise constant exhortations to strive for wisdom (already reviewed above). Another is the fact that there are pretty transparent holes in the arguments that Socrates is supposed to have endorsed against the teachability of virtue, and it is fairly clear that Socrates was aware of the holes (see &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 360e-361b). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-27&quot; name=&quot;nh9-27&quot; id=&quot;nh9-27&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[27] The arguments at Prot. 319e-320b and Meno 93a-94e trade on the (...)' &gt;27&lt;/a&gt;] It may be that in Socratic dialogues not by Plato, improvement&#8212;making someone good&#8212;could have been something other than making someone acquire genuine wisdom, genuine virtue; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-28&quot; name=&quot;nh9-28&quot; id=&quot;nh9-28&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[28] So Forster cites Aeschines (2007, 13).' &gt;28&lt;/a&gt;] but in Plato at least, making a person good is none other than instilling genuine virtue (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 348e-349a and passim; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 190b with 186a; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 273d with 274d8-e1). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-29&quot; name=&quot;nh9-29&quot; id=&quot;nh9-29&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[29] Forster does not deny that Socrates was seeking a kind of human (...)' &gt;29&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Section 2. Socratic Rationalism: Subordinating or Autonomous?&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Before I proceed in addressing specifically the oracle issue, it will be helpful to discuss, at a general level, what Socrates claims motivates his actions. In response to Crito's plea for Socrates to &quot;be persuaded by/obey me&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 44b, 45a, 46a), Socrates replies,&lt;/p&gt; &lt;div class=&quot;spip_poesie&quot;&gt;
&lt;div&gt;We ought, therefore, to consider whether we must do these things or not, as I&#8212;not now for the first time, but actually always&#8212;am the sort of man such as to be persuaded by/obey none of my things [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-30&quot; name=&quot;nh9-30&quot; id=&quot;nh9-30&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[30] Burnet&amp;#39;s gloss on the phrase is: &quot;The soul, with its thoughts and (...)' &gt;30&lt;/a&gt;] other than the statement (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt;) that to me, when I reason (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logizomai&lt;/i&gt;), appears best. (46b)&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;He invokes the principle in this context in order to let Crito know that he will not be persuaded by/obey even his dear friend, but will only be persuaded when he has reasoned the matter through for himself; what determines his decisions is always and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;only&lt;/i&gt; the conclusion of his own argument. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-31&quot; name=&quot;nh9-31&quot; id=&quot;nh9-31&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[31] He says &quot;the statement that to me appears best&quot;; so it is a little (...)' &gt;31&lt;/a&gt;] Let us call the principle &quot;Rationalism&quot;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Thomas Brickhouse and Nicholas Smith's ingenious interpretation of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b would circumvent the role of &quot;reasoning&quot; in Socrates' decision making; they do not seem to think that it expresses what I am calling Rationalism:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;div class=&quot;spip_poesie&quot;&gt;
&lt;div&gt;Socrates does say that he would be persuaded by &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;nothing&lt;/i&gt; but &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt;, but why must we assume that divination would fall into some category other than persuasive &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt;, for Socrates, and, hence, that Socrates would never put his faith in divination unless he had some (other) persuasive &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt; to do so? (1994, 193) [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-32&quot; name=&quot;nh9-32&quot; id=&quot;nh9-32&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[32] McPherran also adopts (1996, 179, 203 and 2011, 124) the kind of (...)' &gt;32&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Their question is meant rhetorically. But I believe there is a better answer than the one they accept. On their reading, Socrates' &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt; would appear to include any form of &quot;persuasive&quot; justification. They thus seem to be neglecting the crucial clause &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;when I reason&lt;/i&gt;&quot;. Liddell and Scott make it tolerably clear that it would be a mistake to regard &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logizomai&lt;/i&gt; as having a sense that does &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; suggest calculating or reasoning or argument. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-33&quot; name=&quot;nh9-33&quot; id=&quot;nh9-33&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[33] Liddell and Scott 1996, s.v., II.' &gt;33&lt;/a&gt;] And that should be especially clear in the present instance, considering the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;argument&lt;/i&gt; that Socrates proceeds to present after stating the principle. For this reason, the English translation &quot;reflect&quot; is far too imprecise, as (I would say) is &quot;consider&quot;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-34&quot; name=&quot;nh9-34&quot; id=&quot;nh9-34&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[34] It could be a mere coincidence, but whereas Brickhouse and Smith 1994 (...)' &gt;34&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Another defect in Brickhouse and Smith's interpretation of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b is that &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt; for them includes things that do not even have truth-value: they argue that the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;'s &quot;promptings&quot; (which they variously describe as &quot;alarms&quot;, &quot;warnings&quot;, &quot;monitions&quot;, &quot;commands&quot;, &quot;directives&quot;) would count as &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt; for Socrates. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-35&quot; name=&quot;nh9-35&quot; id=&quot;nh9-35&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[35] They would evidently not be troubled by the fact that &quot;my things&quot; at (...)' &gt;35&lt;/a&gt;] And, if we use the English term &quot;reason&quot; to translate &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt;, this may sound fine. But the primary issue with which Socrates is concerned at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;truth&lt;/i&gt;: &quot;Friend Crito, your spiritedness is worth much if it is on the side of something correct.&quot; The surrounding passage (46b-47a and 48-49; cf. 54d) makes it clear that the subject matter is statements/positions presented in speech (&quot;stated&quot;) and arrived at by a process of deliberative reasoning (46d, 48d, 49d). Socrates' concern is: &quot;Was it, or wasn't it admirably stated . . . ?&quot; (46c8-d1).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;We should, therefore, accept Liddell and Scott. Citing our very passage, they define &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt; as a &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;rule&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;principle&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;law&lt;/i&gt;, as embodying the result of &#955;&#959;&#947;&#953;&#963;&#956;&#972;&#962;&quot; (original emphasis). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-36&quot; name=&quot;nh9-36&quot; id=&quot;nh9-36&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[36] Liddell and Scott 1996, s.v., III.2.d.' &gt;36&lt;/a&gt;] What Socrates means by &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt; is a statement, expressing a rule or principle of conduct, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-37&quot; name=&quot;nh9-37&quot; id=&quot;nh9-37&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[37] Cf. Burnet 1924, 188.' &gt;37&lt;/a&gt;] that is the conclusion of a reasoned argument. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-38&quot; name=&quot;nh9-38&quot; id=&quot;nh9-38&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[38] Brickhouse and Smith object to Grube&amp;#39;s translation of logos as (...)' &gt;38&lt;/a&gt;] I shall, however, presently return to Socrates' reaction to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;, as it does raise the question of whether &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b is consistent with how Socrates' behavior is depicted in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; and other dialogues.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;But in order better to clarify my interpretation of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b, let us consider Socrates' apparent deference for &quot;expert&quot; opinion (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 48a, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 184e-185a)&#8212;expressed not just in abstract terms, but personally too (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 28d-e, 29b). The Rationalism of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b seems expressly to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;rule out&lt;/i&gt; not only &quot;nonrational&quot; obedience but also any bit of reasoning whose core premise states simply that someone other than Socrates (even an expert) believes that an act is best (or orders the act to be done). So the Rationalism of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b might well be called &quot;Autonomous Rationalism&quot;. This indeed is the whole point of Socrates' stating that he is persuaded by the conclusion of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;his own&lt;/i&gt; reasoning, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;not by anything else&lt;/i&gt;, not by anyone &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;else's&lt;/i&gt; conclusion (or command). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-39&quot; name=&quot;nh9-39&quot; id=&quot;nh9-39&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[39] This is just the point that Hatzistavrou misses when he claims that (...)' &gt;39&lt;/a&gt;] Socrates could hardly offer an argument like the following as an example of how he is persuaded &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; by the expert but only by the conclusion of his own reasoning:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;1. This expert believes that Socrates should do X. [Alternatively: This expert orders Socrates to do X.]&lt;br \&gt;
2. If (1), then Socrates should do X.&lt;br \&gt;
Therefore, 3. Socrates should do X.&lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Indeed, if he were to accept the above argument, it would mean that he &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;is&lt;/i&gt; obeying the expert (whether or not he happens &quot;also&quot; to be obeying &quot;his own&quot; conclusion). That is precisely the point of the above argument. And so accepting it would thus directly conflict with the principle that &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;I am persuaded by none . . . other than. . . .&lt;/i&gt;&quot; Though accepting an argument like the one above is consistent with some kind of Rationalism (we might call it &quot;Subordinating Rationalism&quot;), it is not consistent with the Autonomous Rationalism that Socrates expresses at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;In light of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b, then, the only way to account for passages like &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; 28e and 29b, where Socrates seems to admit &quot;obedience&quot; to an expert (or to a god), is to interpret the expert's order or belief as having no causal role in Socrates' decision. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-40&quot; name=&quot;nh9-40&quot; id=&quot;nh9-40&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[40] Again, exactly the opposite of Hatzistavrou&amp;#39;s interpretation.' &gt;40&lt;/a&gt;] How can we make sense of this? To see how, we need only look carefully at how he describes his &quot;obedience&quot;: he &quot;abided by&quot; the order (28e); he does not &quot;disobey&quot; a superior (29b). This language entails only that Socrates' decision is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;in accordance with&lt;/i&gt; the superior's order. It does not mean that the order was in any way the impetus for his decision. In other words, he sometimes acts &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;according to&lt;/i&gt; orders, but never acts &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;on&lt;/i&gt; orders&#8212;not a trivial difference. Socrates' &quot;obedience&quot; is thus consistent with Autonomous Rationalism. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-41&quot; name=&quot;nh9-41&quot; id=&quot;nh9-41&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[41] Nehamas comes roughly to the same conclusion (1987, 43-45), but he (...)' &gt;41&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;One further indication of Socrates' Rationalism is his determination never to take into consideration/account, in decision making, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;anything&lt;/i&gt; other than whether his action will be just or unjust (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 48c-d; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 28b, 28d, 32d). It is explained to us in quite clear and explicit terms that the ultimate basis for this determination is concern for the condition of his own soul. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-42&quot; name=&quot;nh9-42&quot; id=&quot;nh9-42&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[42] See Crito 47d3-5, 47e7-48a7 and my 2005, 18. We are not to let the (...)' &gt;42&lt;/a&gt;] It is worth noting that this is in precise agreement with his reasons for philosophizing, already explained.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;But, according to Socrates, mere belief (even true belief) that an act is good/just is evidently not enough. This is the whole point of submitting to the persistent Socratic demand &quot;to give a rational account (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt;) of oneself, the manner in which one now lives, and the manner in which one has led one's life&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 187e-188a). Such language suggests that those who refuse to do so are not abiding by the Autonomous Rationalism of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b; as Socrates puts it in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;, &quot;knowledge is more valuable than correct opinion&quot;, because true opinions &quot;aren't worth much, until one binds them down by explanatory reasoning (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;aitias&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logism&#333;i&lt;/i&gt;)&quot; (98a). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-43&quot; name=&quot;nh9-43&quot; id=&quot;nh9-43&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[43] Again, the Meno is not, in my view, a departure from the earlier (...)' &gt;43&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;That is precisely why Socrates criticizes Euthyphro's prosecution of his father, which seems to be based on the diviner's belief that the action is loved by the gods (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphro&lt;/i&gt; 6e-7a); Euthyphro proves incapable of producing a genuinely &quot;explanatory reasoning&quot; for his belief that his action is virtuous. Though Socrates does not deny that if all the gods in fact love an act then the act is assuredly virtuous, he nonetheless is not satisfied with that as an answer to the question about what makes the act virtuous (11a-b). Socrates' compelling concern about &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;that&lt;/i&gt; sort of question is one thing that calls into question the idea that Socrates could in his own case find ultimate satisfaction even if he were assured that an act was loved by all gods. Especially in light of Socrates' adherence to the success-requires-wisdom doctrine (canvassed above), it is doubtful that it is sheer intellectual curiosity, and not practical concern, that motivates Socrates' quest for an answer to the question &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;What makes an action virtuous?&lt;/i&gt; One lesson of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphro&lt;/i&gt; seems to be that, even if we can be assured that X is a telltale feature of virtuous action (such that an action is virtuous if and only if it has X), knowing that an action is X is not a sufficiently justifiable reason for choosing that action (as Socrates clearly does not believe that Euthyphro is justified in his, even if he has correctly divined the gods' love). In order to be justified in choosing an action, we must have genuine knowledge to the effect that that action is virtuous; and in order to have genuine knowledge like that, we must know what virtue &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;consists&lt;/i&gt; in, not just its telltale qualities. (In the language of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphro&lt;/i&gt; 11a, we must know its substance (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ousia&lt;/i&gt;), not just an affection (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;pathos&lt;/i&gt;).) Having a true belief to the effect that an action is virtuous (because that action is X) is not sufficient for knowledge that the action is virtuous; and for Socrates knowledge is necessary for full justification of a course of action. Again, the reason for this is because Socrates believes that genuine knowledge is necessary for doing well. That is the ultimate foundation for the Socratic principle that &quot;fearless&quot; action (including declaration) concerning the good and the bad requires genuine knowledge of the good and the bad. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-44&quot; name=&quot;nh9-44&quot; id=&quot;nh9-44&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[44] The principle is prominent in the Euthyphro (4a-b, 4e, 15d-e), but (...)' &gt;44&lt;/a&gt;] This of course is why Socrates never accords wisdom even to the blessed who act or speak by divine dispensation (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 22b-c, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ion&lt;/i&gt; 533d-534e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 99b-d, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 198e-199a). We have, then, plenty of reason to think that Socrates would never deliberately choose an act out of divine inspiration; he does not consider that a source of genuine knowledge about virtue, and so it cannot be the basis of confident decision making.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Now, I happen to believe that, given Socrates' belief that he is &quot;good&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 28a7-b2, 41d) and that he has never done any injustice (33a, 37b; cf. 27e3-5), and given his view that one cannot be genuinely good without genuine wisdom, it follows that Socrates thinks he does act in light of genuine knowledge about the good&#8212;not just belief. Here, however, is not the place to defend this further step. Whether or not he really considers himself genuinely wise need not be settled for the purposes of this paper; for at any rate he clearly regards himself as &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;striving&lt;/i&gt; for wisdom and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;endeavoring&lt;/i&gt; to act wisely. So my point in this section of the paper has been, not that Socrates follows the above principles unerringly, but only that he strives to follow them and thinks that anyone who &quot;cares for the soul&quot; and &quot;attends to virtue&quot; ought to follow them.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Section 3. Socrates' &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Daimonion&lt;/i&gt;: Reflection or Reflex?&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Given how &quot;frequent&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 40a) and &quot;usual&quot; (40c) was the occurrence of Socrates' &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-45&quot; name=&quot;nh9-45&quot; id=&quot;nh9-45&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[45] Since the subject of this paper is Plato&amp;#39;s Socrates, I do not consider (...)' &gt;45&lt;/a&gt;] it is often considered at least prima facie reason to question Socrates' commitment to the principle expressed at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b. Indeed, the phenomenon is usually interpreted as involving an &quot;order&quot; that Socrates immediately &quot;obeys&quot;. Is this not, then, striking evidence that Socrates often acts &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;on orders&lt;/i&gt;, and so contrary to my Autonomously Rationalistic interpretation of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;I should say first that I agree with most recent commentators in concluding that the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;, as Socrates describes it, is the sort of thing that &quot;trumps&quot; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-46&quot; name=&quot;nh9-46&quot; id=&quot;nh9-46&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[46] The term was first used in this context in a debate between Vlastos (...)' &gt;46&lt;/a&gt;] conclusions that Socrates had been about to act upon before its occurrence. Formidable scholars have maintained that there is no text that suggests such a conclusion. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-47&quot; name=&quot;nh9-47&quot; id=&quot;nh9-47&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[47] Vlastos 1991, 286-287 and Woodruff 2000, 141. According to Vlastos (...)' &gt;47&lt;/a&gt;] But that is pretty clearly a mistake. Socrates' description of what the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; does at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 31d, 40a, and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedr.&lt;/i&gt; 242c, together with his description of his reaction to it at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 272e, do strongly suggest that the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;'s occurrence is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;immediately&lt;/i&gt; followed by Socrates' ceasing his intended course of action. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-48&quot; name=&quot;nh9-48&quot; id=&quot;nh9-48&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[48] Cf. Reeve 1989, 69; Brickhouse and Smith 1994, 193; McPherran 1996, (...)' &gt;48&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;This also means that the texts that discuss the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; do not give us any reason to think that Socrates accepts a form of Subordinating Rationalism whereby he sometimes acts &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;on orders&lt;/i&gt; in light of the following kind of argument: [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-49&quot; name=&quot;nh9-49&quot; id=&quot;nh9-49&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[49] Even if the daimonion is not interpreted as an order or as issuing an (...)' &gt;49&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;1. I am experiencing the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;br \&gt;
2. If (1), then I should not do what I was about to do.&lt;br \&gt;
Therefore, 3. I should not do what I was about to do.&lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;If the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; functions in such a way as to necessitate immediate action, then it seems to preclude further reasoning on that particular occasion. That is to say, it cannot be interpreted as a phenomenon that Socrates reflects upon and then, on the basis of such reflection, rationally decides to act, as some commentators appear to think. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-50&quot; name=&quot;nh9-50&quot; id=&quot;nh9-50&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[50] Kraut (2000, 16) and Long (2006, 73) both seem to accept a (...)' &gt;50&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;But many scholars seem to think that our texts do support the idea that Socrates' reaction to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; consists in a conscious decision to accept the experience itself as a sufficient reason for acting (or, more accurately, for stopping a course of action). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-51&quot; name=&quot;nh9-51&quot; id=&quot;nh9-51&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[51] Reeve 1989 and 2000, Brickhouse and Smith 1994 and 2000, McPherran (...)' &gt;51&lt;/a&gt;] There is, however, a different and straightforward interpretation of the nature of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; which I have not seen clearly articulated. It is indeed an interpretation that the texts themselves naturally suggest, and one that happily makes them consistent with an Autonomously Rationalistic interpretation of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;First of all, it is well worth noting that most commentators are guilty of (unwittingly) embellishing Socrates' account of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;. It is usually said to give Socrates &quot;orders&quot; or &quot;warnings&quot;, and that Socrates &quot;obeys&quot; the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-52&quot; name=&quot;nh9-52&quot; id=&quot;nh9-52&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[52] It is variously described as issuing a &quot;command&quot; (Brickhouse and Smith (...)' &gt;52&lt;/a&gt;] But it is important to recognize that none of our texts say or suggest &quot;orders&quot; or &quot;warnings&quot;, or even &quot;obedience&quot;. In fact, they describe something quite different in nature, whose implications have not been sufficiently appreciated or clearly understood by most commentators. Whenever Socrates actually describes the operation of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;, he says only that, when it &quot;comes&quot; or &quot;happens&quot; to him (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;moi&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;gignetai&lt;/i&gt;) (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 31d, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 272e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep.&lt;/i&gt; 496c, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Theaet.&lt;/i&gt; 151a, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedr.&lt;/i&gt; 242b; cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphro&lt;/i&gt; 3b), it &quot;always &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;turns me away&lt;/i&gt; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;apotrepei&lt;/i&gt;) from that which I'm about to do&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 31d), or &quot;always &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;holds me back from&lt;/i&gt; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;epischei&lt;/i&gt;) what I'm about to do&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedr.&lt;/i&gt; 242c; cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 40b), or &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;opposes&lt;/i&gt; me (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;moi&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;enantioutai&lt;/i&gt;)&quot; in some action or statement (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 31d, 40a-c), or &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;doesn't allow&lt;/i&gt; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ouk&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;eai&lt;/i&gt;) me&quot; to do something (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedr.&lt;/i&gt; 242c), or &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;prevents&lt;/i&gt; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;apok&#333;luei&lt;/i&gt;)&quot; an action (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Theaet.&lt;/i&gt; 151a). As that is an exhaustive list of descriptions of its activity, we have every reason to interpret them literally rather than figuratively. We might consider a figurative interpretation of such expressions as &quot;turns me away&quot; or &quot;holds me back&quot;, but only if the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; were ever described as &quot;ordering&quot; or &quot;warning&quot;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socrates does call the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; &quot;a kind of voice&quot;. Not only, however, does he never describe what it says, but he never even says that it &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;says&lt;/i&gt; anything. He certainly never says he is &quot;persuaded&quot; or &quot;dissuaded&quot; by it, nor even goes so far as to suggest that he &quot;obeys&quot; it. Indeed, the descriptions we are given seem to indicate hardly more than a kind of brute (albeit divine) force, literally deflecting or otherwise blocking Socrates' intended course of action. I would suggest, then, that what Socrates does, as soon as it &quot;comes&quot; or &quot;happens&quot;, is purely reflexive and altogether non-deliberative. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-53&quot; name=&quot;nh9-53&quot; id=&quot;nh9-53&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[53] To his credit, Partridge 2008 seems to acknowledge the possibility of (...)' &gt;53&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;To be sure, the fact that Socrates calls the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; &quot;a kind of voice&quot; is consistent with an interpretation that attributes to it linguistic content of some kind. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-54&quot; name=&quot;nh9-54&quot; id=&quot;nh9-54&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[54] Some scholars speculate that the daimonion effectively says something (...)' &gt;54&lt;/a&gt;] But our texts hardly require such an interpretation. After all, Socrates never calls it &quot;a voice&quot;, but only &quot;a kind of&quot; voice (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ph&#333;n&#275;&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;tis&lt;/i&gt;) (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 31d, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedr.&lt;/i&gt; 242c). And he says only that he &quot;seems&quot; to hear such a thing (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedr.&lt;/i&gt; 242c). So I am sympathetic with some who have suggested that Socrates did not regard the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; as literally a voice. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-55&quot; name=&quot;nh9-55&quot; id=&quot;nh9-55&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[55] J. Adam 1916, xxviii and Joyal 2005, 107. Jackson reports the (...)' &gt;55&lt;/a&gt;] But even if we allow it some linguistic content, its linguistic content is not manifest in the ways Socrates describes himself as reacting to it. So it appears that whatever linguistic content it &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;may&lt;/i&gt; have plays no causal role in Socrates' behavior. It may be rather like my shouting &quot;no&quot; at my tomcat, which causes him immediately to stop attacking his little sister, but not in virtue of the linguistic content of my shout, which he presumably cannot grasp in any case.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;We also simply go beyond our texts if we interpret the nature of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; as itself signaling Socrates not to do what he is about to do, or as signaling to him that he should not do what he is about to do. Such interpretations are tempting, as he does indeed describe the phenomenon as a &quot;sign&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 40b, 40c, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep.&lt;/i&gt; 496c, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 272e, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedr.&lt;/i&gt; 242b), and once even as &quot;prophetic&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 40a). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-56&quot; name=&quot;nh9-56&quot; id=&quot;nh9-56&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[56] There is no reason to interpret &quot;mantik&#275;&quot; here to mean &quot;prophetic (...)' &gt;56&lt;/a&gt;] But, lacking any further information, we should adopt a conservative interpretation of our texts. The use of the terms &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;s&#275;meion&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;mantik&#275;&lt;/i&gt; do suggest that it signals or prophesies &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;something&lt;/i&gt;. But &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;what&lt;/i&gt; it signals or prophesies is never explicitly described. Considering what he says at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 40a&#8212;that it has always been &quot;very frequent, opposing me even in small matters if I was about to act in some way not correct&quot;&#8212;, it could be that Socrates does think of it as signaling or prophesying that what he is about to do would be not correct. Still, Socrates never says as much. And it is worth recognizing that, even if he had, it would not mean that the &quot;sign&quot; itself had any linguistic content. I suggest that Socrates regards the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; as a sign, not in his immediate reaction to it (since, as I have said, that reaction is purely reflexive), but only after he reflects on his reaction to it. Likewise, I (or, for that matter, any observer) may regard the reflexive pull of my hand away from the stove as a sign (or &quot;prophecy&quot;) that the stove is hot or that touching it would be bad, though of course there was no linguistic content to my hand's movement. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-57&quot; name=&quot;nh9-57&quot; id=&quot;nh9-57&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[57] Brisson concludes that, though Socrates&amp;#39; &quot;acoustic&quot; sign is &quot;equivalent (...)' &gt;57&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;On my interpretation of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;, therefore, the phenomenon does not require that he ever violates the Autonomous Rationalism of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b, simply because Autonomous Rationalism applies only to decision making (to &quot;obeying&quot; or &quot;being persuaded&quot;), not to reflexive behavior. Socrates never regards the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; as a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;reason for&lt;/i&gt; deciding anything; it is at most the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;cause&lt;/i&gt; of some of his reflexive actions. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-58&quot; name=&quot;nh9-58&quot; id=&quot;nh9-58&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[58] We might here recall Socrates&amp;#39; view that the Homeric poems were not (...)' &gt;58&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;h3 class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Section 4.) Delphic Oracle: Order or Irony?&lt;/h3&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Predominantly, I have so far argued, Socrates' stated reasons for philosophizing do not invoke a god or an order. But in perhaps his most famous defense of his philosophical lifestyle, a divinity is invoked in a most striking way: I mean of course the passages in Plato's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; where he describes the oracle and the mission that is alleged to derive from it. This account has obscured Socrates' real reasons for philosophizing, and is understandably, I think, the main reason why many excellent scholars are led to misinterpret Socrates' real purpose.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;It is well known that in some passages of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; Socrates gives his audience the impression not only (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;i&lt;/i&gt;) that he philosophizes because of a divine order (23b, 28e-29a, 29d, 30a, 33c, 37e-38a), but also (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ii&lt;/i&gt;) that his philosophizing with the Athenians is a service that greatly benefits them (30a, 36c, 36d10) while having no perceptible benefit, but rather great adversity, for himself (23b-c, 31b-c, 21e2-3, 22e7-23a2, 28a5-9). He even purports to continue to be motivated by this selfless, divine purpose right up to the present moment in his &quot;defense&quot; speech: &quot;. . . I am far from speaking a defense on behalf of myself, as someone might suppose; rather, I do so on behalf of you, lest you somehow err regarding the god's gift to you by voting against me&quot; (30d-e). I shall refer to propositions (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;i&lt;/i&gt;) and (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ii&lt;/i&gt;) as &quot;DO&quot; and &quot;PS&quot;, respectively. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-59&quot; name=&quot;nh9-59&quot; id=&quot;nh9-59&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[59] Think: &quot;Divine Order&quot; and &quot;Public Service/Private Sacrifice&quot;.' &gt;59&lt;/a&gt;] They are clearly of a piece; Socrates connects the two explicitly: he offers his own personal adversity as proof that his activity is motivated by divine will, rather than his regard for personal welfare (31a-c). So DO and PS must be accounted for (or discounted) together. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-60&quot; name=&quot;nh9-60&quot; id=&quot;nh9-60&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[60] The connection between the two propositions has not been sufficiently (...)' &gt;60&lt;/a&gt;] I shall try to show that neither proposition represents the truth; Socrates presents them (in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; alone, [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-61&quot; name=&quot;nh9-61&quot; id=&quot;nh9-61&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[61] We do of course in the Phaedo hear of the &quot;exhortation&quot; that (...)' &gt;61&lt;/a&gt;] we should always keep in mind), not indeed to deceive anyone, but to mock his accusers.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Some commentators make a great deal of the fact that the oracle was not by itself sufficient for the mission described in DO and PS, explaining that the divine order was not in&#8212;or was, at any rate, not clear from&#8212;the oracle itself, but rather was something Socrates had to infer from his own &quot;examination&quot; and reasoning. An interpretation along such lines seems to cast Socrates as a Subordinating Rationalist:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;blockquote&gt;1. The divine oracle meant that I should philosophize.&lt;br \&gt;
2. If (1), then I should philosophize.&lt;br \&gt;
Therefore, 3. I should philosophize.&lt;/blockquote&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;For this reason alone, there would be good reason to reject such an interpretation. Taking DO and PS seriously, however, involves a more fundamental problem.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;It should be clear that DO conflicts with Socrates' Autonomous Rationalism, simply because DO suggests that news of the oracle motivated a decision to &quot;examine&quot; its meaning, though the oracle does not count as a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt; in the sense required by &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-62&quot; name=&quot;nh9-62&quot; id=&quot;nh9-62&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[62] As I explained earlier, some commentators mistakenly interpret logos (...)' &gt;62&lt;/a&gt;] It was of course a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;statement&lt;/i&gt; (or, in any case, a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;word&lt;/i&gt;); but it was clearly not, at the crucial time (i.e. the time that it allegedly motivated his &quot;examination&quot;), a statement that he was persuaded of due to his own reasoning. Indeed, it was (according to the story) a statement that &quot;for a long time&quot; he did not &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;believe&lt;/i&gt;, simply because he did not even know what it &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;meant&lt;/i&gt; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 21b2-6). He does say he knew throughout this time that, whatever it meant, it was true (because it was divine). So, in that sense, he believed &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;that it was true&lt;/i&gt;. But, since he did not know what &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;it&lt;/i&gt; was, he can hardly have been persuaded by &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;it&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Given this, it is hard to take seriously the suggestion (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 21e) that he really believed that it was &quot;necessary&quot; to &quot;make the god's thing be of the most importance&quot; despite the great risk that his &quot;examination&quot; of it (allegedly) seemed to involve. Again, his whole point here is that he (supposedly) did not at that time even understand precisely &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;what&lt;/i&gt; the god's &quot;thing&quot; was. So the oracle story appears to conflict, not only with the letter of the Rationalistic principle of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b, but also with his determination not to perform a course of action unless it is clearly &quot;just&quot;&#8212;i.e., as I explained earlier, that it is best for himself (his soul). As Socrates himself seems to have recognized (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 21e2-3, 22e7-23a2), it was far from clear, at the time, that his chosen method of examining the oracle was really in his interest (assuming, of course, that he did not already understand its meaning). These are powerful reasons for rejecting the story about the risky, selfless divine mission of DO and PS.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Another indication that Socrates does not seriously endorse DO and PS is that his &quot;proof&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 31a-c) of the divine nature of his practice&#8212;viz., his poverty&#8212;also entails a rejection not only of the Rationalism of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 48b but even of a principle that is one main focus of Socrates' habitual exhortations: to be inattentive to money (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 29d-e, 30a-b). The alleged proof in fact trades on an ambiguity in the expression &quot;my own things&quot;, conflating attention to material well-being and attention to the soul's good condition: He claims that the oracle story must be the truth&#8212;that his behavior is divinely inspired, &quot;not human&quot;, irrational&#8212;because, in his &quot;service to the god&quot;, he has been inattentive of all of his own things (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;t&#333;n&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;emautou&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;hapant&#333;n&lt;/i&gt;), particularly personal finance. Accepting the &quot;proof&quot; entails accepting that being inattentive to money is &quot;irrational&quot;. Accepting the &quot;proof&quot; furthermore entails a rejection of the Rationalism of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b, which requires (at least) rational behavior: according to his &quot;proof&quot;, he does not &quot;have any rational account (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt;)&quot; of the behavior that results in his condition (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 31b6-7). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-63&quot; name=&quot;nh9-63&quot; id=&quot;nh9-63&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[63] The argument at 31a-c seems to be of this sort: 1. I have some (...)' &gt;63&lt;/a&gt;] Surely, quite extraordinary, by Socrates' own lights, if it were true!&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;As the above considerations are grounded in rather general principles, some of them based on dialogues other than the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;, they may be less than thoroughly convincing. But there are in Socrates' presentation of the oracle story itself plenty of indications that he does not take DO and PS seriously:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;One indication is the fact that he consistently does not expect his audience to take them seriously (20d4-5, 37e-38a), warning them twice (20e, 21a) not to jeer at him for what he is about to say. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-64&quot; name=&quot;nh9-64&quot; id=&quot;nh9-64&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[64] Note also the incredulous exclamation that he anticipates (28b3-5) one (...)' &gt;64&lt;/a&gt;] He anticipates (30c) that they will likewise make an uproar after they hear him claim that he is making his &quot;defense&quot; speech for their sake and not for his (30d-e). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-65&quot; name=&quot;nh9-65&quot; id=&quot;nh9-65&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[65] At 30e2-3 Socrates again concedes that his account might sound (...)' &gt;65&lt;/a&gt;] Of course none of that logically entails that Socrates thinks they should not accept the story. But if the oracle story were really part of a serious effort to defend himself, it would be remarkable for him to waste so much space with an explanation which, he both anticipates (20d) and concludes (37e-38a), will be not only unconvincing but also regarded as a joke. And one might well think the defendant doth protest too much for the story &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;not&lt;/i&gt; to be in jest. Indeed, my own interpretation of the oracle story is that it is a joke&#8212;in fact, a mockery of his accusers&#8212;which his audience would be unable to understand if they were to take the story seriously.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;But the oracle story itself contains even more powerful reasons for rejecting DO and PS. According to DO, the supposed point of the oracle story is to explain how he came to understand that he must philosophize in his now characteristic way, and part of that understanding is supposed to have come from what he allegedly learned from the oracle about the nature and value of genuine wisdom. So if we are to take the oracle story at face value, then Brickhouse and Smith's conclusion would indeed sound reasonable: &quot;. . . His certainty about the moral importance of his mission is derived from various forms of divination, and not from whatever conception of virtue he has developed and continues to test by means of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;elenchus&lt;/i&gt;&quot; (1989, 107). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-66&quot; name=&quot;nh9-66&quot; id=&quot;nh9-66&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[66] Furthermore, they add, &quot;. . . Socrates has not undertaken to test (...)' &gt;66&lt;/a&gt;] But a careful look at the oracle story reveals that Socrates cannot have really learned about the importance of philosophy, or about the nature and value of genuine wisdom, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;from the oracle&lt;/i&gt; or even from his &quot;examination&quot; of it. According to the story itself, before he had even arrived at the allegedly momentous conclusion described at 23a, Socrates was already taking for granted the fairly sophisticated axiological position outlined in the so-called protreptic passages of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthydemus&lt;/i&gt; and expressed in other early dialogues: he makes it clear that he had already determined (22d) that garden-variety craft-knowledge is not wisdom in the &quot;greatest things&quot;&#8212;in fact, that it is worthless by itself. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-67&quot; name=&quot;nh9-67&quot; id=&quot;nh9-67&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[67] Stokes also argues that certain features of the oracle story suggest (...)' &gt;67&lt;/a&gt;] So the supposed examination of the oracle actually itself hinges crucially on a preconception about virtue that Socrates had evidently already developed&#8212;precisely what Brickhouse and Smith allege cannot be true.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socrates does admit craftsmen know &quot;many admirable things&quot; and, in that respect, are indeed &quot;wiser&quot; than Socrates, a &quot;wisdom&quot; that their lack of modesty &quot;conceals&quot; (22d). But we are not to make too much of all that: For one thing, he never says he cross-examined the craftsmen &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;about their crafts&lt;/i&gt;, nor does he ever say he wanted to learn crafty matters from them (though, in rather stark contrast, he did express (22b) an interest in learning about the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;poets&lt;/i&gt;' works). But, more importantly, he concludes, despite all their craft-knowledge, that the craftsmen were not in the end &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;really&lt;/i&gt; any wiser than he: [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-68&quot; name=&quot;nh9-68&quot; id=&quot;nh9-68&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[68] He does say that the craftsmen&amp;#39;s immodesty&#8212;thinking they know things (...)' &gt;68&lt;/a&gt;] &quot;human wisdom is worth something little&#8212;actually, nothing&quot; (23a7). He is willing to allow that craft-knowledge is in some sense &quot;admirable&quot;; but he evidently was, from the start, committed to the view that it is strictly speaking not good at all if it is not conjoined with genuine wisdom&#8212;precisely the view we find the supposedly more enlightened Socrates espousing in other early dialogues (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 281d-e and 288e ff., &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charm.&lt;/i&gt; 173d-e and 174b, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 194e-196a, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg.&lt;/i&gt; 511b-514a). Again, what is crucial to observe here is that Socrates did not &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;discover&lt;/i&gt; the view from talking with the craftsmen; rather, he depicts himself as having known it all along: garden-variety craft-knowledge was just not what he was interested in in the first place. Without understanding, from the beginning, precisely how to distinguish the craftsmen's knowledge from wisdom in &quot;the greatest things&quot;, he could not have so confidently concluded that the latter is indeed &quot;other&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 22d7) than the craftsmen's knowledge. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-69&quot; name=&quot;nh9-69&quot; id=&quot;nh9-69&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[69] Nor could the oracle&amp;#39;s prima facie meaning, together with his own lack (...)' &gt;69&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Now, wisdom &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;in&lt;/i&gt; &quot;the greatest things&quot; he does indeed deny having. But he never in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; denies knowing the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;nature&lt;/i&gt; of such wisdom. He claims not to have wisdom in the greatest things, but there is no indication that he was ever unaware of exactly what &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;sort&lt;/i&gt; of wisdom it is. This is why, later in the dialogue, he so confidently avers what he says he has always &quot;been in the habit of&quot; saying to anyone he encounters: viz., that they should not &quot;attend to&quot; money, reputation, bodies, or anything other than &quot;wisdom (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;phron&#275;sis&lt;/i&gt;), truth, and the soul&quot;&#8212;i.e., that they should first of all be trying to acquire genuine virtue (29d-30b). His point is that the latter are &quot;the things worth most&quot; (30a1-2). But this is nothing new; [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-70&quot; name=&quot;nh9-70&quot; id=&quot;nh9-70&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[70] So I disagree with Stokes that we find at 29d-30b &quot;far more positive (...)' &gt;70&lt;/a&gt;] it is just another way of putting the point expressed earlier at 22d and 23a: that wisdom in &quot;the greatest things&quot; is not the knowledge of the money-makers, or of the doctors or trainers, or of the rhetoricians, etc. Indeed, once this is understood, we should recognize that his own neglect of those &quot;paltrier things&quot; does not come, as he slyly suggests (23b-c, 31a-c), from &quot;service to the god&quot;, allegedly understood only after discovering the oracle's meaning; rather, that neglect is required by the axiological principles implicit in his early &quot;examination&quot; of the oracle's meaning. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-71&quot; name=&quot;nh9-71&quot; id=&quot;nh9-71&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[71] For this reason alone, we must reject McPherran&amp;#39;s proposal that, before (...)' &gt;71&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;One significant problem with taking the oracle story seriously is that we must then draw a very different conclusion about Socrates' chief purpose than the one we are presented with in the other early dialogues: we must regard Socrates as concerned primarily, not with a personal search for wisdom, but with proving to others their own lack of genuine wisdom. I do not doubt that the latter was a concern of Socrates. But it was, at most, a subsidiary one. It cannot, however, be such if DO and PS are the truth. John Burnet put this point very well a century ago:&lt;/p&gt; &lt;div class=&quot;spip_poesie&quot;&gt;
&lt;div&gt;We need not doubt . . . that Socrates actually gave some such account of his mission as that we read in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;, though we must keep in view the 'ironical' character of this part of the speech. Most English critics take it far too seriously. They seem to think the message of Socrates to his fellow-citizens can have been nothing more than is there revealed, and that his sole business in life was to expose the ignorance of others. If that had really been all, it is surely hard to believe that he would have been ready to face death rather than relinquish his task. (1916, 242-243)&lt;/div&gt;
&lt;/div&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;I do not entirely follow Burnet's last sentence; surely many have died in the name of a god for what others would consider far less worthy causes. But Burnet's main point here was that we take the oracle story too seriously if we conclude that Socrates really thought it explained his purpose. I would go further than Burnet; for even some of those who have regarded Socrates' true mission as involving more than simply exposing others' ignorance also take the oracle story far too seriously. I believe that Socrates would have acted and lived pretty much as he had even if the oracle had never delivered the famous response, even if he had never received or heard of another such oracle or any other divine sign. As I have explained, it is clear that Socrates had reasons of his own for choosing a philosophical life, arrived at independently of divine influence&#8212;reasons which he clearly regarded not only as sufficient for his peculiar behavior, but as the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;proper&lt;/i&gt; explanation of it, the gods having played little or no part&#8212;and certainly no causal role in his decision making.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;I do not mean to deny that Chaerephon did receive a response of the kind reported in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;. Nor do I wish to deny that Socrates thinks he is acting in accordance with divine wishes. But this is quite different from denying, as I do, that Socrates believes he had received an explicit order to philosophize or believes that he is acting &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;on&lt;/i&gt; any special order from a god. I would say rather that, based on his own determination that philosophizing is good, Socrates has &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;inferred&lt;/i&gt; that the god wants him (and us all) to philosophize. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-72&quot; name=&quot;nh9-72&quot; id=&quot;nh9-72&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[72] This, I assume, is what makes Weiss say that &quot;to obey the god and to (...)' &gt;72&lt;/a&gt;] This, I suggest, accounts for the speculative terms he chooses (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 23a5, 23a8, 28e5) to describe his views about the supposed &quot;order&quot;. [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-73&quot; name=&quot;nh9-73&quot; id=&quot;nh9-73&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[73] Reeve (1989, 71), Vlastos (1991, 171-172), and Stokes (1992, 48) too (...)' &gt;73&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;If what he says in connection with the oracle story is not meant to be taken seriously, what then is its purpose in Socrates' defense speech? As I have indicated already, I believe that it was meant as a scathing joke, moreover one that was supposed to be transparent. Just consider how incredibly full of tragic ironies Socrates' trial and conviction would be, if the oracle story were indeed supposed to be the truth: he has been charged with impiety for acting in a way that is in reality more pious than any other Athenian's action, so much so that he is practically irreplaceable (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 30e-31a); it is actually the plaintiffs (35d6-7), and the judges voting for his execution, who do not acknowledge the gods, as executing Socrates for not acknowledging the gods will thwart the divine purpose of Socrates' life (30d-e); the method which he used to discover his special divine mission, and which the divine order requires that he continue using, is the very thing that, despite its being a uniquely beneficial and divine &quot;gift&quot; to them, so infuriates the Athenians (21c8-d2, 24a6-7, 30e7-31a6), and ultimately is what leads to his own prosecution and execution (23e4, 28a5-9, 28b4-5); indeed, the very ones whom the god has chosen him to save are the ones who will put him to death and thus doom themselves to go on living &quot;incorrectly&quot;. Reality is rarely so replete with tragi-comedy. Instead, I suggest that we, as well as Socrates' Athenian audience, were supposed to interpret DO and PS as part of an elaborate effort by Socrates to mock his accusers and to highlight their own very real crimes (30d5-6, 33b4-5, 39b5-6, 41d6-e1), in which, Socrates gravely believed, the judges who voted against him were complicit (41b3, 41d6-e1). [&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nb9-74&quot; name=&quot;nh9-74&quot; id=&quot;nh9-74&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title='[74] Since (as I have tried to show) the substance of the oracle story and (...)' &gt;74&lt;/a&gt;]&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;As I have argued, there is otherwise no way to make coherent sense of his commitment to the Autonomous Rationalism that we find not only in other early dialogues but also in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; itself.
&lt;br \&gt;&lt;br \&gt;
Scott J. SENN&lt;br \&gt;
Longwood University&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;hr /&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_notes'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-1&quot; name=&quot;nb9-1&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-1&quot;&gt;1&lt;/a&gt;] For helpful feedback, I am indebted to Ben Bradley, Mark Chekola, Mark Lukas, Gary Matthews, and Erik Wielenberg.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-2&quot; name=&quot;nb9-2&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-2&quot;&gt;2&lt;/a&gt;] My focus is Socrates as Plato depicts him in his &quot;early&quot; dialogues, not necessarily the &quot;historical&quot; Socrates. For the purposes of this paper, I accept the usual division between &quot;early&quot; and &quot;middle&quot; dialogues, where &quot;early&quot; includes at least &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charmides&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthydemus&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphro&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hippias Minor&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ion&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Laches&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lysis&lt;/i&gt;, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Protagoras&lt;/i&gt;. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorgias&lt;/i&gt; and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; are often considered &quot;transitional&quot; between early and middle, so my interpretation of Plato's &quot;early&quot; Socrates does not hinge on those two works, however consistent (I and many others think) they are with the &quot;earlier&quot; dialogues. I shall also occasionally cite even later dialogues, where I think such references are telling, though nothing crucial depends on such references.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-3&quot; name=&quot;nb9-3&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-3&quot;&gt;3&lt;/a&gt;] J. Adam 1916, ix&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-4&quot; name=&quot;nb9-4&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-4&quot;&gt;4&lt;/a&gt;] Forster 2006, 17-19; Weiss 2006, 243-244, 252&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-5&quot; name=&quot;nb9-5&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-5&quot;&gt;5&lt;/a&gt;] Unless otherwise noted, translations are my own, based on the Oxford Classical Text.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-6&quot; name=&quot;nb9-6&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-6&quot;&gt;6&lt;/a&gt;] Cf. Weiss 2006, 247. Interestingly, the &quot;discussing, asking and answering, affirming and denying&quot; that occur in one's own thoughts are treated, at least in later dialogues, as not fundamentally different from the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt; between two or more interlocutors (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Theaet.&lt;/i&gt; 189e-190a, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Soph.&lt;/i&gt; 263e-264a, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phil.&lt;/i&gt; 38b-e).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-7&quot; name=&quot;nb9-7&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-7&quot;&gt;7&lt;/a&gt;] Weiss 2006; Forster 2006 and 2007.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-8&quot; name=&quot;nb9-8&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-8&quot;&gt;8&lt;/a&gt;] Forster correctly says that Socrates' characterizing himself as a &quot;philosopher&quot; &quot;may well connote his lack of knowledge and his awareness of his own ignorance&quot; (2007, 17-18). Certainly it does. This is made explicit at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lys.&lt;/i&gt; 218a-b: philosophers are neither wise nor unwise, but between wisdom and ignorance: they &quot;have ignorance&quot; but are not &quot;ignorant&quot; or &quot;unlearned&quot; as a result of it, since they regard themselves as not knowing what they do not know (cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symp.&lt;/i&gt; 204a). But there is no reason to suppose, as Forster seems to, that this represents the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;entire&lt;/i&gt; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;meaning&lt;/i&gt; of &quot;philosopher&quot; anywhere in the dialogues.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-9&quot; name=&quot;nb9-9&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-9&quot;&gt;9&lt;/a&gt;] Weiss appears to acknowledge this: &quot;. . . The more philosophical among us . . . deeply desire to know, yearn to know, and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;strive&lt;/i&gt; to know&quot; (2006, 251; her emphasis). But, concerning &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socrates&lt;/i&gt;' philosophy, she seems to accept Forster's more narrow definition: &quot;What makes what he does philosophy is that he attempts to [get his interlocutors to think as he does] by asking questions and presenting arguments&quot; (252). I shall presently address the concerns that seem to have led Weiss to this conclusion.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-10&quot; name=&quot;nb9-10&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-10&quot;&gt;10&lt;/a&gt;] Forster notes &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 288d (2007, 17 n. 40), but apparently does not think much of it. By the way, it is true that at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 307, Socrates seems to suggest that Euthydemus and Dionysodorus are philosophers. But if so, he evidently believes they are &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;bad at philosophy&lt;/i&gt;. It is not that &quot;philosopher&quot; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;means&lt;/i&gt; something different when applied to them. Rather, what Socrates means is that there is a single practice (the pursuit of wisdom), and some do it well and others do it poorly. Presumably, there are different &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ways&lt;/i&gt; of doing it poorly: one could genuinely desire real wisdom but be bad at getting it, or one might not genuinely desire it and so practice philosophy disingenuously, etc. (So similarly there are bad politicians etc.) Of course, even if &quot;philosopher&quot; did really mean something other than &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;pursuer of wisdom&lt;/i&gt; when applied to the likes of Euthydemus and Dionysodorus, this does not supply us convincing reason for taking the term to have such a meaning in other contexts, particularly in those where it is applied to Socrates, whom Plato consistently &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;contrasted&lt;/i&gt; with the sophists. Again, Forster evidently would not agree (2006, 17).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-11&quot; name=&quot;nb9-11&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-11&quot;&gt;11&lt;/a&gt;] Cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hipp. min.&lt;/i&gt; 366d3-368b1 and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg.&lt;/i&gt; 466e, 509d-e. Although Socrates arrives at the same conclusion at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 88c, he later (97a, 97b-c, 98b-c) appears to withdraw this conclusion because having true opinion without knowledge seems to lead to success as well. Vlastos thinks (1991, 228 n. 91) this indicates a shift from genuine Socratic doctrine to Platonic. (Cf. his contention that the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; is &quot;a hybrid, firmly elenctic down to 80E, firmly non-elenctic after that&quot; (115 n. 41). See also Kraut 1984, 301-304. ) Penner has defended a plausible interpretation according to which Socrates genuinely recants neither the success-requires-wisdom doctrine nor the virtue-is-wisdom doctrine (1987, 310-320; 1992, 165 n. 63). Forster, who accepts &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 96e ff. pretty much at face value (2007, 10ff.), recognizes (11) that &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 100a implies that divinely inspired true belief is only a &quot;shade (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;skia&lt;/i&gt;)&quot; compared with &quot;real (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;al&#275;thes&lt;/i&gt;)&quot; virtue; Forster nonetheless maintains that Socrates held that humans were incapable of such &quot;real virtue&quot;. Forster believes that for Socrates true belief without understanding is &quot;in many cases&#8230;beneficial for action&quot; (2007, 31). If this is meant to suggest that true belief by itself is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;consistently&lt;/i&gt; beneficial in practice, it seems to contradict even the Socrates of post-80e &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;: Socrates explains the difference between knowledge and mere true belief (97e-98a): true opinions are not &quot;worth much&quot; until tied down with reasoning &#8212;i.e., until they become knowledge (98a); that is why knowledge is &quot;more valuable&quot; (98a)&#8212;in fact &quot;so much more valuable&quot; (97d)&#8212;than mere true belief. How are we to explain the difference Socrates here acknowledges if he were supposed to consider mere true belief sufficient for long-term benefit or success?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-12&quot; name=&quot;nb9-12&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-12&quot;&gt;12&lt;/a&gt;] This is pretty explicit at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 194d1-3, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Hipp. min.&lt;/i&gt; 366d3-368b1, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lys.&lt;/i&gt; 210d1-4, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 282e2-4; cf. also &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg.&lt;/i&gt; 459e5-6, 506d5-8 and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep.&lt;/i&gt; 1.349e. It is certainly implied in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; as well; see 23b4-7 with 29d-30b. Brickhouse and Smith have argued that Socrates thought that virtue&#8212;as a condition of the soul, as opposed to virtuous activity&#8212;is unnecessary for happiness (1994, 129-130) and that wisdom is unnecessary for consistently performing virtuous actions and thus being &quot;good&quot; (2000, 148-152). I believe such conclusions fly in the face of almost everything Socrates says on the matter. It is worth noting that they are driven to such a conclusion because they accept Socrates' claim never to have done injustice (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 33a, 37a) and they believe he is sincere in disavowing genuine wisdom. It should be understood what a precarious stance that is; in fact, I think it is ultimately untenable in light of the overwhelming textual evidence that Socrates accepts the goodness-requires-wisdom doctrine. Brickhouse and Smith have suggested a variety of implausible but imaginative alternatives: that &quot;elenctic knowledge&quot;, along with frequent assistance from the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;, can serve as a substitute for genuine moral knowledge (1994, 60, 132); that Socrates has just &quot;been lucky&quot; in not doing injustice his whole life (2000, 152); or that &quot;scrupulous&quot; managing of appetites keeps &quot;them from interfering with his deliberations about what is best&quot; (2006, 273). Though I cannot adequately defend the point here, I am afraid that we had better concede that Socrates may have been dissembling when he claims not to have any genuine wisdom, something that Plato consistently represents almost all his interlocutors as suspecting in any case (not only Callicles and Thrasymachus but even Socrates' friends and associates: see &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 23a, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 180b-c, 200c-d, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Charm.&lt;/i&gt; 176b, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ion&lt;/i&gt; 532d; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt;. 71b-c, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Symp.&lt;/i&gt; 175c-d, 217a, 218d, 219d-e, 222a; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Rep.&lt;/i&gt; 2.367d-368c and 6.506b-d; cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedo&lt;/i&gt; 118a15-17). I believe that Socrates' characteristic &quot;disavowals&quot; were not meant (by Socrates or by Plato) to be taken as seriously as they usually are by commentators nowadays. It is helpful to keep in mind, in this connection, that Socrates in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;, despite his famous coyness (at 20b-e, 21d, 22c-d, 23b), later clearly characterizes himself as a &quot;good&quot; man (28a7-b2, 41d), and that there is no simpler way of describing one as &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;virtuous&lt;/i&gt; in ancient Greek than calling one &quot;good&quot; (see Senn 2005, 5 n. 14). And, as I have said, Socrates consistently maintains that virtue requires genuine wisdom.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-13&quot; name=&quot;nb9-13&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-13&quot;&gt;13&lt;/a&gt;] In the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;, as in other dialogues, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;phron&#275;sis&lt;/i&gt; stands for genuine wisdom. Forster translates the word as &quot;practical judgment&quot; (2007, 4), which rather obscures the possibility (and, as I believe, the reality) that Socrates is urging us toward genuine wisdom. His translation cannot be called &quot;inaccurate&quot;, but there is no compelling reason to suppose&#8212;in fact many compelling reasons to reject the idea&#8212;that for Socrates &quot;practical judgment&quot; is anything less that genuine wisdom. Cf. Burnet 1916, 258.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-14&quot; name=&quot;nb9-14&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-14&quot;&gt;14&lt;/a&gt;] Forster, on the other hand, seems to require that Socrates' claim is no more than a disingenuous ploy to set up an interlocutor for refutation (2006, 18-22), all with a view to proving wisdom to be humanly unattainable. Cf. Weiss' conclusion that &quot;the core of Socratic moral inquiry&quot; is merely &quot;Socrates' attempt to get his interlocutors to think as he does&quot; (2006, 252).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-15&quot; name=&quot;nb9-15&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-15&quot;&gt;15&lt;/a&gt;] Despite this, there is sometimes rather overblown significance attached to passages like &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 17c9, 30a3-4, and 33b1-2. They seem to be part of why Vlastos ventures to characterize Socrates as a &quot;populist&quot;, a &quot;street philosopher&quot;, choosing not to &quot;confine . . . moral inquiry to a tiny elite&quot; (1991, 18, 48, 110, 177; 1994, 103). That Socrates saw no intrinsic importance in his interlocutor's wealth or poverty, or that the general public might find him in the Agora &quot;and other places&quot;, hardly makes him a populist.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-16&quot; name=&quot;nb9-16&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-16&quot;&gt;16&lt;/a&gt;] For this reason, Socrates' characterizing the main activities of philosophy as the &quot;greatest&quot; good (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 38a, cf. 41b) could cause confusion. However we understand that locution, it can hardly mean the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ultimate&lt;/i&gt; good, since, as I have shown, philosophy is desirable, according to Socrates, as a means to some &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;further&lt;/i&gt; end. In any case, there are independent reasons for thinking Plato does not (always) use &quot;greatest&quot; to mean &quot;ultimate&quot;: For instance, in a not unrelated passage, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedo&lt;/i&gt; 89d2-3, he makes Socrates say that there is &quot;no greater evil&quot; than hating &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt;, and only a little later (90d6-7) that hating &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logoi&lt;/i&gt; results in being &quot;robbed of truth and knowledge of the things that are (real)&quot;, an evidently more ultimate evil (cf. 66b, 83c-d). Similarly, at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg.&lt;/i&gt; 452d Gorgias claims that the power to persuade is &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;both&lt;/i&gt; the &quot;greatest good&quot; &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;and&lt;/i&gt; the cause of things that (presumably) are good in some more ultimate sense. A few scholars do think that for Socrates philosophizing has &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;some&lt;/i&gt; intrinsic value (Vlastos 1971, 19; Penner 1992, 150 n. 14; Kraut 1984, 271 n. 43)&#8212;however little is the evidence for such an interpretation (see Irwin 1977, 91; McPherran 1996, 222 n. 115). But, as far as I can tell, philosophizing is rarely interpreted as the sole ultimate good for Socrates (see, however, Reeve 1989, 178).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-17&quot; name=&quot;nb9-17&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-17&quot;&gt;17&lt;/a&gt;] Weiss is perhaps correct that &quot;there are no instances of direct exhortation in any of Plato's dialogues outside of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;&quot; (2006, 248-249), but only if by &quot;direct&quot; exhortations she just means (as she seems to) exhortations that are not &quot;summaries of conclusions that emerged from elenctic exchange&quot; (249). On that definition, however, it is unclear that even the exhortations in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; are &quot;direct&quot; ones.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-18&quot; name=&quot;nb9-18&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-18&quot;&gt;18&lt;/a&gt;] The translation is based on Burnet's perceptive gloss (1924, 124).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-19&quot; name=&quot;nb9-19&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-19&quot;&gt;19&lt;/a&gt;] Cf. Senn 2005, 5.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-20&quot; name=&quot;nb9-20&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-20&quot;&gt;20&lt;/a&gt;] When Socrates' accomplishment (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ergon&lt;/i&gt;) of merely getting (some) Athenians to attend to virtue (i.e. to philosophize) is described as the &quot;greatest&quot; good for them (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 30a-b, 36c), we cannot interpret &quot;greatest&quot; as meaning &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;most ultimate&lt;/i&gt;. Cf. note 16.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-21&quot; name=&quot;nb9-21&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-21&quot;&gt;21&lt;/a&gt;] So I disagree with Weiss' view that Socrates in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; is &quot;not a man whose aim is to attain wisdom . . .&quot; (2006, 244), as well as with her more general conclusion that &quot;the core of Socratic moral inquiry&quot; is merely &quot;Socrates' attempt to get his interlocutors to think as he does&quot; (252).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-22&quot; name=&quot;nb9-22&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-22&quot;&gt;22&lt;/a&gt;] A. Adam 1914 ad loc.: &quot;&#954;&#945;&#943; corrects &#8000;&#955;&#943;&#947;&#959;&#965; and introduces a stronger word.&quot; Cf. Smyth 1984, 650.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-23&quot; name=&quot;nb9-23&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-23&quot;&gt;23&lt;/a&gt;] Taylor glosses the phrase: &quot;In reality god [i.e. god alone] is wise. . .&quot; (1998, 22; his brackets).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-24&quot; name=&quot;nb9-24&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-24&quot;&gt;24&lt;/a&gt;] Vlastos 1994, 64; McPherran 1985, 301; Reeve 1989, 149-150; Reeve 2000, 36; Weiss 2006, 244, 250; Forster 2006, 12-13&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-25&quot; name=&quot;nb9-25&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-25&quot;&gt;25&lt;/a&gt;] There is a parallel here with Socrates' (probably intentionally) fallacious reasoning in &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 319e-320b and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 93a-94e to the effect that virtue is not teachable. Below I discuss these passages specifically.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-26&quot; name=&quot;nb9-26&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-26&quot;&gt;26&lt;/a&gt;] Benson's arguments in favor of the kind of interpretation that I here support are well worth considering (2000, 181-182). Forster, who thinks it &quot;seems clear&quot; that 23a7 is &quot;a timeless statement about the human condition in comparison with the divine&quot; (2006, 12; 2007, 3-4), says, &quot;Even taken alone, or just in its immediate context, the statement . . . could hardly be interpreted as harbouring such a tacit qualification as &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;at the moment&lt;/i&gt; or &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;so far&lt;/i&gt;&quot; (2006, 13 n. 25). He does not explain &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;why&lt;/i&gt; it could &quot;hardly&quot; do so. No doubt his interpretation of the words by themselves is certainly a possible one, but not compelling, especially given the other evidence and indications I have already reviewed. Forster is quite right that the timeless interpretation would have agreed with traditional Greek thought and even perhaps the traditional way in which Delphic oracles were &quot;timelessly&quot; interpreted. But we should not &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;expect&lt;/i&gt; that Socrates' interpretation would agree with tradition (though we may indeed expect that Socrates might make it appear to his uncareful audience that he agreed with tradition). As far as I can tell, Forster offers no &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;argument&lt;/i&gt; in support of his timeless interpretation, upon which much of his 2006 and his 2007 heavily rely. I see that Hatzistavrou also has recently accepted the interpretation that I favor (2005, 85).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-27&quot; name=&quot;nb9-27&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-27&quot;&gt;27&lt;/a&gt;] The arguments at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 319e-320b and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 93a-94e trade on the ambiguity of &quot;virtue&quot;, which may either mean &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;the &quot;virtue&quot; of Pericles et al.&lt;/i&gt; or else mean &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;genuine virtue&lt;/i&gt;. What saves us from concluding that Socrates took the argument seriously is the fact that we know Socrates did not believe Pericles et al. had genuine virtue. The key to understanding the virtue-is-unteachable argument was seen long ago by, e.g., J. Adam 1893, xix and Burnet 1914, 171, 173-174. It is no coincidence that one glaring flaw in the argument Socrates is supposed to endorse is in its pointing to the failure of the best current and past politicians and sophists to make anyone good (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Prot.&lt;/i&gt; 320a-b, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 93b-94e, 96b-c) in order to prove that virtue is not teachable, and so not knowledge. Of course Socrates' argument may be relying on the ambiguity of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;didakton&lt;/i&gt; which may mean &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;already taught&lt;/i&gt; instead of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;capable of being taught&lt;/i&gt;; if so, the argument is a red herring anyway.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-28&quot; name=&quot;nb9-28&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-28&quot;&gt;28&lt;/a&gt;] So Forster cites Aeschines (2007, 13).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-29&quot; name=&quot;nb9-29&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-29&quot;&gt;29&lt;/a&gt;] Forster does not deny that Socrates was seeking a kind of human improvement that went beyond awareness of ignorance. (Forster correctly observes (2006, 6) that Socrates does not consider awareness of ignorance to be genuine wisdom; and we should agree since Socrates quite clearly has reservations (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 20d9, 20e7, 29b4, 38c3-4) about even calling such awareness &quot;wisdom&quot;.) Forster's idea seems to be that such improvement entailed acceptance of &quot;the right ethical views&quot; (2007, 13) in absence of genuine understanding. It is unclear how, on Forster's interpretation, Socrates believed one should go about acquiring such views; but part of it, no doubt, involved accepting a reliance on the god or gods for inspiration (2007, 31-32); perhaps one was also to trust that such views might be transmitted to one by certain humans like Socrates himself (2007, 32) or the divinely inspired poets (2007, 33). But, on Forster's interpretation, then, effort or &quot;attention&quot; would seem largely unnecessary; indeed, perhaps what most people require, according to Socrates, is simple &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;indoctrination&lt;/i&gt; in the correct beliefs? To me, the idea seems wildly implausible given Socrates' aims and efforts as Plato portrays them. For one thing, Socrates' view about human improvement would, on Forster's kind of interpretation, appear to be not that much different from the traditional ancient Greek view. Forster perhaps would agree, given his frequent comparisons of Socratic thought with traditional thought (2006, 6 n. 13, 10, 13 n. 25). Are we to believe Socrates&#8212;or Plato in his &quot;early&quot; period&#8212;thought he had no novel message to bring to Hellas?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-30&quot; name=&quot;nb9-30&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-30&quot;&gt;30&lt;/a&gt;] Burnet's gloss on the phrase is: &quot;The soul, with its thoughts and feelings, as well as the body and its appurtenances, are all included in a man's 'belongings' &quot; (1924, 188; cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 47c6). &quot;My things&quot; surely also includes Socrates' family and friends (cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; 92b, J. Adam 1893, and Weiss 1998, 59 n. 6). The possessive is a typical Greek way of referring to personal and/or familial affairs; cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 23b, 31b, 36c, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 54b.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-31&quot; name=&quot;nb9-31&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-31&quot;&gt;31&lt;/a&gt;] He says &quot;the statement that to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;me&lt;/i&gt; appears best&quot;; so it is a little difficult to take too literally his invitation to consider the matter &quot;in common&quot; (46d, 48d), particularly given the dominant role that Socrates plays not only in the following discussion but typically.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-32&quot; name=&quot;nb9-32&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-32&quot;&gt;32&lt;/a&gt;] McPherran also adopts (1996, 179, 203 and 2011, 124) the kind of interpretation of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt; that Brickhouse and Smith favor. Corey (2005, 224) and Partridge (2008, 291) seem to as well.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-33&quot; name=&quot;nb9-33&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-33&quot;&gt;33&lt;/a&gt;] Liddell and Scott 1996, s.v., II.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-34&quot; name=&quot;nb9-34&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-34&quot;&gt;34&lt;/a&gt;] It could be a mere coincidence, but whereas Brickhouse and Smith 1994 faithfully translate the word at their 178 (&quot;when I reason&quot;), they soften this to &quot;when he considers it&quot; while defending their interpretation at 193. Indeed, in their 2000, where they give the same interpretation, they prefer Grube's translation &quot;on reflection&quot; (247).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-35&quot; name=&quot;nb9-35&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-35&quot;&gt;35&lt;/a&gt;] They would evidently not be troubled by the fact that &quot;my things&quot; at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b5 would presumably also include &quot;my usual prophetic thing&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 40a); for they would explain that &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b is consistent with Socrates' being persuaded by some of &quot;my things&quot;, provided he has &quot;considered&quot; them or &quot;reflected&quot; on them.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-36&quot; name=&quot;nb9-36&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-36&quot;&gt;36&lt;/a&gt;] Liddell and Scott 1996, s.v., III.2.d.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-37&quot; name=&quot;nb9-37&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-37&quot;&gt;37&lt;/a&gt;] Cf. Burnet 1924, 188.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-38&quot; name=&quot;nb9-38&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-38&quot;&gt;38&lt;/a&gt;] Brickhouse and Smith object to Grube's translation of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt; as &quot;argument&quot;, claiming that it &quot;would beg the question about what might count as a 'reason' for Socrates&quot; (2000, 263 n. 16). Needless to say, there is no question begging, provided we accept Grube's interpretation &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;in light of what the context implies&lt;/i&gt;. Woodruff suggests an interpretation that similarly seems to circumvent the influence of reasoning: &quot;Socrates does not say that he achieves this result [i.e., his conclusion] solely &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;by&lt;/i&gt; reason, but only &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;while&lt;/i&gt; he is reasoning&quot; (2000, 137, original emphases). Woodruff too seems to undervalue the context of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b. In any case, it strikes me as a grossly unnatural interpretation of Socrates' words to suppose that his point here is only that he will accept whatever conclusion he arrives at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;in the course of&lt;/i&gt; his reasoning whether or not that conclusion came about as a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;result&lt;/i&gt; of the reasoning.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-39&quot; name=&quot;nb9-39&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-39&quot;&gt;39&lt;/a&gt;] This is just the point that Hatzistavrou misses when he claims that &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b is consistent with what he calls &quot;weak subordination&quot; to authority (2005, 111). It is true, as Hatzistavrou says, that according to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b &quot;one should consider only rational arguments&quot;. But &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b does not allow just &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;any&lt;/i&gt; rational argument. Hatzistavrou's attribution of &quot;weak subordination&quot; to Socrates conflicts with &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b in yet a more fundamental way: It is clear, from Hatzistavrou's account of &quot;weak subordination&quot; (79), that any &quot;rationalization&quot; that Socrates may indulge in plays no causal role in his obedient actions. So Socrates is free to &quot;agree&quot; or &quot;disagree&quot; with the command, but the command is what determines his action, since he would obey even if he &quot;disagreed&quot; (101). This comes out quite starkly in the case of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;: According to Hatzistavrou , Socrates will &quot;abstain from an action because the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; so prescribed, thus obeying his &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;, even though he has rationalized the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;'s command and he himself believes that the relevant action is bad&quot; (95).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-40&quot; name=&quot;nb9-40&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-40&quot;&gt;40&lt;/a&gt;] Again, exactly the opposite of Hatzistavrou's interpretation.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-41&quot; name=&quot;nb9-41&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-41&quot;&gt;41&lt;/a&gt;] Nehamas comes roughly to the same conclusion (1987, 43-45), but he does so without considering &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b, and he balks (as I do not) at interpreting Socrates as willing to &quot;obey&quot; superiors (Nehamas prefers to speak of &quot;persuasion&quot;). As Nehamas points out, Socrates' Rationalism allows him to be persuaded by an argument that a superior may offer. But, in such cases, he is persuaded not simply by the fact that it is a superior who offers it; rather, he accepts the argument &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;after using his own reasoning&lt;/i&gt; to come to what happens to be the same conclusion. Again, the wording and context of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b make this unmistakable.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-42&quot; name=&quot;nb9-42&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-42&quot;&gt;42&lt;/a&gt;] See &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 47d3-5, 47e7-48a7 and my 2005, 18. We are not to let the terms &quot;just&quot; and &quot;unjust&quot; distract us from this point; for, as Socrates uses the terms, they are plainly either synonymous or co-referential with the terms &quot;good&quot; and &quot;bad&quot;, &quot;admirable&quot; and &quot;shameful&quot;. See &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 48b7, 49a5-6, 49b4-5, and again my 2005, 18.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-43&quot; name=&quot;nb9-43&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-43&quot;&gt;43&lt;/a&gt;] Again, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; is not, in my view, a departure from the earlier dialogues concerning the value of genuine knowledge. Passages such as this keep me from following commentators who (like Kraut 1984, 301-304) believe that Socrates in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Meno&lt;/i&gt; abandons the position that knowledge is necessary for virtue. See my n. 11 above.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-44&quot; name=&quot;nb9-44&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-44&quot;&gt;44&lt;/a&gt;] The principle is prominent in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphro&lt;/i&gt; (4a-b, 4e, 15d-e), but also appears at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Lach.&lt;/i&gt; 186c-d and (implicitly) at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 24d3-5 (cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyphro&lt;/i&gt; 2c) and elsewhere. It is indeed the basis for Socrates' usual (disingenuous) reverence for his interlocutors' &quot;wisdom&quot;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-45&quot; name=&quot;nb9-45&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-45&quot;&gt;45&lt;/a&gt;] Since the subject of this paper is Plato's Socrates, I do not consider the accounts of Xenophon and spurious Platonic works. Though &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Alcibiades I&lt;/i&gt; otherwise agrees with how the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; is presented in Plato's dialogues, one of many things that mark it as spurious is that it describes the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;'s operation in a way that Plato's Socrates conspicuously avoids: claiming the act that it opposed (103a) was something &quot;the god&quot; did not allow (105d, 124c). In Plato, only the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; itself is said not to allow, though it is indeed &quot;of/from the god&quot;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-46&quot; name=&quot;nb9-46&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-46&quot;&gt;46&lt;/a&gt;] The term was first used in this context in a debate between Vlastos and Brickhouse and Smith (Smith and Woodruff 2000, 195ff.).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-47&quot; name=&quot;nb9-47&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-47&quot;&gt;47&lt;/a&gt;] Vlastos 1991, 286-287 and Woodruff 2000, 141. According to Vlastos the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; brings Socrates a &quot;message&quot;, a &quot;monition&quot; that &quot;tells him to do or believe&quot; something; but it does not contradict Socrates' intended course of action; it only operates in cases when he ends up acting on the basis of either (A) &quot;independent grounds&quot; that he had already rationally formulated or (B) &quot;intuitive&quot; grounds (a &quot;hunch&quot;) that he only later rationally articulates and accounts for (1991, 283-285). So Vlastos seems to believe that it is simply an expression of his own powers of reasoning. (This kind of interpretation dates back at least to Jackson 1874, 241-242.) Weiss 1998 and 2005 accepts a similar conclusion, except that Weiss, unlike Vlastos, thinks that the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; does frustrate Socrates' intended course of action.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-48&quot; name=&quot;nb9-48&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-48&quot;&gt;48&lt;/a&gt;] Cf. Reeve 1989, 69; Brickhouse and Smith 1994, 193; McPherran 1996, 205 n. 64; Weiss, 2005, 86; Corey 2005, 222; Long 2006, 73; Partridge 2008, 289-290.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-49&quot; name=&quot;nb9-49&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-49&quot;&gt;49&lt;/a&gt;] Even if the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; is not interpreted as an order or as issuing an order, this kind of argument cannot be accommodated by Autonomous Rationalism since it forgoes the truly &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;explanatory&lt;/i&gt; reasoning&quot; about the action's goodness that (as I argued earlier) Socratic Rationalism requires. Brisson 2005 seems ultimately to accept this type of Subordinating Rationalism. On Brisson's interpretation, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; seems to be just a bare sign devoid of linguistic content; but it is never &quot;inexplicable&quot; (10), because it &quot;enables&quot; Socrates to &quot;use his reason&quot; to &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;infer&lt;/i&gt; &quot;injunctions&quot; (12). This is what makes his reactions to it &quot;autonomous&quot;, according to Brisson, even though he &quot;does not enjoy complete 'moral autonomy'&quot; (12), since he sometimes depends upon such signs. Partridge has recently argued for a rather similar interpretation. So, much like Brisson, Partridge is certainly correct in concluding that Plato's descriptions of the daimonion do not entail that the phenomenon has any &quot;informational or discursive content&quot; (2008, 287-288, 296). But I disagree with the &quot;agnostic&quot; position that Partridge prefers: &quot;It is, after all, a subjective experience that, moreover, is not adequately described . . .&quot; in a way that warrants attributing &quot;informational or discursive content&quot; to it (288; cf. 297). As I shall presently argue, since it is consistently described as &quot;preventing&quot; or &quot;holding back&quot; Socrates, and described only as &quot;a kind of&quot; voice, we do indeed have positive indication that it had no linguistic content.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-50&quot; name=&quot;nb9-50&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-50&quot;&gt;50&lt;/a&gt;] Kraut (2000, 16) and Long (2006, 73) both seem to accept a Subordinately Rationalistic interpretation of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b, according to which action in accordance with the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; is consistent with &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b because his action is based on inductive reasoning concerning past reliability of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; (cf. Jackson 1874, 242 and Corey 2005, 224). What is apparently overlooked in this kind of interpretation is the fact that Socrates could not even begin such an inductive test without violating the rational principle in the first instance, as Brickhouse and Smith point out (2005, 57).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-51&quot; name=&quot;nb9-51&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-51&quot;&gt;51&lt;/a&gt;] Reeve 1989 and 2000, Brickhouse and Smith 1994 and 2000, McPherran 1996, Weiss 1998 and 2005, Benson 2000, Hatzistavrou 2005. For whatever reason, Benson seems to be only one of few who actually describes the phenomenon as &quot;divine intervention&quot; (247 n. 88), though the term is perfectly apt on this sort of interpretation.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-52&quot; name=&quot;nb9-52&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-52&quot;&gt;52&lt;/a&gt;] It is variously described as issuing a &quot;command&quot; (Brickhouse and Smith 1994, 195 and 2005, 50; McPherran 1996, 189; Hatzistavrou 2005, 95), &quot;prohibition&quot; (A. Adam 1914, 15; Brickhouse and Smith 1989, 251; Reeve 1989, 69 and 2000, 35; Brisson 2005, 5-6; Long 2006, 64, 72), &quot;injunction&quot; (Woodruff 2000, 141; Weiss, 2005, 86; Long 2006, 65), &quot;prescription&quot; (Hatzistavrou 2005, 90, 95), &quot;order&quot; (Corey 2005, 221). The &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; is just as frequently described as &quot;warning&quot; him (Jackson 1874, 236; A. Adam 1914, 15; Nussbaum quoted in Kraut 2000, 32; Brickhouse and Smith 1989, 168 and 1994, 133, 203 and 2000, 152, 235 and 2005, 60; McPherran 1996, 186-190 and 2005, 17-19 and 2011, 125; Kraut 2000, 16; Brisson 2005, 10; Weiss 2005, 90, 95-96; Corey 2005, 221; Long 2006, 63-64) or issuing &quot;monitions&quot; (Vlastos 1991, 170, 283-284, Brickhouse and Smith 1994, 190-194 and 2005, 49; McPherran 2005, 16 and 2011, 125), though it is hard to tell whether this is supposed to be something different from &quot;command&quot; or &quot;prohibition&quot;, especially as some of the same commentators seem to use both sets of terms interchangeably. We also hear of &quot;admonitions&quot; (Jackson 1874, 236; Kraut 2000, 16; Weiss 2005, 88; Long 2006, 65; McPherran 2011, 125), whether or not this is meant as yet a different category. At any rate, Socrates is almost universally characterized as &quot;obeying&quot; or being &quot;persuaded/dissuaded&quot; by the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-53&quot; name=&quot;nb9-53&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-53&quot;&gt;53&lt;/a&gt;] To his credit, Partridge 2008 seems to acknowledge the possibility of the sort of account I offer here. However, he rejects it, arguing (296) that the idea that the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; &quot;is merely an arresting experience&quot; is not compatible with even a &quot;qualified rationalism&quot; for Socrates (which Partridge cleaves to). Consequently, he himself accepts &quot;something like a twinge theory&quot; (297), according to which the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; &quot;unsettles him momentarily&quot; (305). And so Partridge attempts to answer such questions as: &quot;why Socrates did not view it as a gut feeling or his own subconscious sense that an action is inadvisable&quot; (297-298), and how &quot;the subjective experience of an informationally-empty event [c]ould draw his attention to what he was about to do&quot; (300), and &quot;how could Socrates know it was a warning&quot; at its very first occurrence? (304). On my account, this problem of interpretation&#8212;an alleged problem &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;for Socrates&lt;/i&gt; about &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;how&lt;/i&gt; to react to the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;&#8212;does not even arise, because Socrates' reaction does not require &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;interpretation&lt;/i&gt;, inasmuch as it does not involve a &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;decision&lt;/i&gt; to react to it. And, as I argue, my account does not conflict with Socrates' Rationalism simply because his Rationalism has to do only with decision making, not purely reflexive action. Partridge does occasionally describe the daimonic phenomenon in ways that may make it seem as though he accepted my account (&quot;his reflexive obedience to the sign&quot; (296), &quot;the sign stops Socrates&quot; (300), &quot;the sign prevents&quot; (302), &quot;the sign stops him in his tracks&quot; (304)). But it is clear that those descriptions are no more literal on Partridge's account than the usual interpretations of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt;. In fact, on his account, even Socrates' own &quot;exclusively apotreptic&quot; descriptions are not to be taken literally, as they are based, not on the intrinsic nature of the experience itself, but on &quot;the frequency of the sign's occurrences and the confidence in the regularity of its operation that the frequency supports&quot; (301). Indeed, Partridge explains that at least &quot;for the first few instances of the sign's operation in Socrates' life&quot; it operated &quot;in such a way that it le[ft] reason alone to determine that he ought not to do&quot; what he was about to do (306). Again, on Partridge's account, Socrates experiences just an unsettling &quot;twinge&quot;, which may be only &quot;arresting enough&quot; to &quot;simply arouse his curiosity and heighten his self-awareness and awareness of his surroundings. . .&quot; (302). Partridge's Socrates does not &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;experience&lt;/i&gt; actual opposition from the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; when it occurs; rather, it is only in retrospect that he &quot;would &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;come to see&lt;/i&gt; the sign &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;as&lt;/i&gt; a warning or opposition&quot; (301, my emphasis).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-54&quot; name=&quot;nb9-54&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-54&quot;&gt;54&lt;/a&gt;] Some scholars speculate that the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; effectively &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;says&lt;/i&gt; something like &quot;no&quot; or &quot;stop&quot; (Brickhouse and Smith 1994, 195 and 2000, 248; McPherran 1996, 197, 200, 204-205; Woodruff 2000, 141; Weiss 2005, 87; Long 2006, 67; cf. Vlastos 1991, 283). Brisson is considerably more careful about this than many are (2005, 2), as is Partridge (2008, 287ff.). See note 57 below.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-55&quot; name=&quot;nb9-55&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-55&quot;&gt;55&lt;/a&gt;] J. Adam 1916, xxviii and Joyal 2005, 107. Jackson reports the metaphorical interpretation as a &quot;common&quot; one in his day (1874, 232), though he himself does not accept it. Erik Wielenberg has brought my attention, in this connection, to C. S. Lewis' remark on human pain: &quot;. . . [P]ain insists upon being attended to. God whispers to us in our pleasures, speaks in our conscience, but shouts in our pain: it is His megaphone to rouse a deaf world&quot; (2001, chap. 6). Pain would thus also be &quot;a kind of&quot; divine voice, i.e. metaphorically.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-56&quot; name=&quot;nb9-56&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-56&quot;&gt;56&lt;/a&gt;] There is no reason to interpret &quot;mantik&#275;&quot; here to mean &quot;prophetic &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;skill&lt;/i&gt;&quot;, as Joyal does (2005, 102). &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Mantik&#275;&lt;/i&gt;&quot; (&quot;prophetic&quot;) is feminine due to its antecedent: the &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;ph&#333;n&#275;&lt;/i&gt;&quot; (&quot;voice&quot;) of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 31d3. That the term refers simply to his &quot;sign&quot;, and not a &quot;skill&quot; or &quot;power&quot;, is further corroborated by the symmetry between &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;h&#275; ei&#333;thuia moi mantik&#275;&lt;/i&gt;&quot; at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 40a and &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;to ei&#333;thos s&#275;meion&lt;/i&gt;&quot; at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 40c, &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Euthyd.&lt;/i&gt; 272e, and &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedr.&lt;/i&gt; 242b. Cf. Brisson 2005, 3.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-57&quot; name=&quot;nb9-57&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-57&quot;&gt;57&lt;/a&gt;] Brisson concludes that, though Socrates' &quot;acoustic&quot; sign is &quot;equivalent to something like '&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;m&#275;&lt;/i&gt;', 'do not'&quot; (2005, 2), it does not constitute &quot;articulated discourse&quot; (11). Indeed, the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; &quot;manifests&quot; or &quot;reveals a prohibition through the intermediary of a sign&quot; (11), but presumably, according to Brisson, only because Socrates, using his powers of reasoning, may &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;regard&lt;/i&gt; it thus (12). This part of Brisson's account seems plausible enough to me, though I cannot accept his broader conclusions. Likewise, I agree wholeheartedly with Partridge 2008 in concluding that Socrates only &quot;came to view&quot; the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; &quot;as&quot; a warning, though I cannot accept Partridge's broader conclusions. See my notes 49 and 53 above.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-58&quot; name=&quot;nb9-58&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-58&quot;&gt;58&lt;/a&gt;] We might here recall Socrates' view that the Homeric poems were not really spoken &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;by Homer&lt;/i&gt; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ion&lt;/i&gt; 534d), that they are &quot;not human&quot; or even &quot;from human&quot; but &quot;godly and from gods&quot; (534e). So it may well be said that the actions that the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; causes are not strictly speaking &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socrates&lt;/i&gt;' actions, that the actions&#8212;like the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;daimonion&lt;/i&gt; that causes them&#8212;are not human or from human but &quot;godly&quot; (cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 31c) and &quot;from god&quot; (cf. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 40b). Similarly, it looks as though Socrates is genuinely &quot;mindless&quot; in his daimonic behavior, just as the poets and Corybantic dancers are when they make poetry and dance (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ion&lt;/i&gt; 534a). So one might think that Socrates &quot;seems to hear&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedr.&lt;/i&gt; 242c) a voice in the very sense that the Corybantes &quot;seem to hear the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;auloi&lt;/i&gt;&quot; (&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 54d), as both respond helplessly. These parallels are interesting and telling, but not to be taken too far: McPherran is certainly right that Socrates never describes himself as &quot;having a god in&quot; him or being &quot;possessed&quot; by a god, as he sometimes characterizes poets and Bacchic dancers. McPherran, however, goes too far in concluding that Socrates' daimonic experiences cannot even have involved the &quot;replacement&quot; of consciousness that the poetic and Corybantic experiences do (1996, 195-196).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-59&quot; name=&quot;nb9-59&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-59&quot;&gt;59&lt;/a&gt;] Think: &quot;Divine Order&quot; and &quot;Public Service/Private Sacrifice&quot;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-60&quot; name=&quot;nb9-60&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-60&quot;&gt;60&lt;/a&gt;] The connection between the two propositions has not been sufficiently appreciated by scholars who are unwilling to accept DO whole-heartedly but who appear to take quite seriously the idea (PS) that Socrates' real mission is largely one of public service, rather than (as I believe) largely self-centered. These include Reeve 1989, 72 and 155, Vlastos 1991, 177, Stokes 1992, 62ff., and McPherran 1996, 222. Weiss (1998, 13) and Nehamas (1999, xxx-xxxi) see quite well that PS cannot be taken any more seriously than DO, though Weiss seems to lose sight of this in her 2006 analysis of the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; (see my note 9 above).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-61&quot; name=&quot;nb9-61&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-61&quot;&gt;61&lt;/a&gt;] We do of course in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Phaedo&lt;/i&gt; hear of the &quot;exhortation&quot; that &quot;continually&quot; comes to Socrates in his dreams to &quot;make and work at music&quot; (60e). But this apparent exception actually proves the rule: For one thing, Socrates' (alleged) point in mentioning his dream exhortation is that, after so many years, he is not even sure that he was &quot;conceiving&quot; it correctly, as he now says he thinks it may well have meant &quot;popular&quot; music, and not philosophy. Also, he makes it fairly plain that, if the dream was exhorting him to philosophize, it was exhorting him to do &quot;the very thing&quot; that he &quot;was [already] doing&quot;; indeed, he reiterates this three times in the brief passage (60e7-8, 61a2, 61a4). So at most he was philosophizing only in &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;accordance&lt;/i&gt; with the dream's orders, and not &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;on&lt;/i&gt; its orders. Likewise, nothing more is implied by the similar reference in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; to divine orders transmitted in dreams (and other &quot;divinations&quot;) (33c).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-62&quot; name=&quot;nb9-62&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-62&quot;&gt;62&lt;/a&gt;] As I explained earlier, some commentators mistakenly interpret &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;logos&lt;/i&gt; broadly enough to include such things as the oracle (Brickhouse and Smith 1994, McPherran 1996).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-63&quot; name=&quot;nb9-63&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-63&quot;&gt;63&lt;/a&gt;] The argument at 31a-c seems to be of this sort: &lt;br \&gt;
1. I have some rational account for my behavior only if I attend to my own things.&lt;br \&gt;
2. I attend to my own things only if I am not poor as a result of my behavior.&lt;br \&gt;
3. I am poor as a result of my behavior.&lt;br \&gt;
Therefore, 4. I have no rational account for my behavior.&lt;br \&gt;
Therefore, 5. My behavior is not human, but divinely inspired.&lt;br \&gt;
Of course Socrates does not really accept premise (2), and so cannot accept the &quot;proof&quot;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-64&quot; name=&quot;nb9-64&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-64&quot;&gt;64&lt;/a&gt;] Note also the incredulous exclamation that he anticipates (28b3-5) one of his judges making in reaction to his account of his peculiar &quot;practice&quot;. The imagined judge could hardly expect Socrates to be &quot;ashamed&quot; of his purpose if the judge accepted it as a genuinely divine one.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-65&quot; name=&quot;nb9-65&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-65&quot;&gt;65&lt;/a&gt;] At 30e2-3 Socrates again concedes that his account might sound &quot;laughable&quot;. (J. Adam (1916, 86) and Burnet (1924, 126) suggest that &quot;laughable&quot; refers specifically to the gadfly simile. There is, however, no compelling reason to interpret the remark so narrowly.)&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-66&quot; name=&quot;nb9-66&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-66&quot;&gt;66&lt;/a&gt;] Furthermore, they add, &quot;. . . Socrates has not undertaken to test elentically whether testing elentically is worthy, and found it to pass the test. . . . Therefore, his confidence in the value of his mission cannot derive from elentic justification&quot; (105). The idea that Socrates' commitment to the method and practice of philosophy (at least in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt;) is primarily due to the divine order inferred from the oracle, rather than to his own independent judgment, is also accepted by many recent commentators, including Kraut 1984, 15, 238; Kahn 1996, 96-97; Benson 2000, 248; Hatzistavrou 2005, 94-95; Forster 2007, 11, Partridge 2008, 290 n. 19. Kahn, however, in light of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; 46b, argues (perhaps uniquely) that Plato depicts a fundamentally different Socrates in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Crito&lt;/i&gt; than the &quot;deeply religious&quot; Socrates we find in the &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apology&lt;/i&gt; (1996, 88ff., 97).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-67&quot; name=&quot;nb9-67&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-67&quot;&gt;67&lt;/a&gt;] Stokes also argues that certain features of the oracle story suggest that Socrates had already understood what the oracle story is supposed to have taught him (1992, 69-70); and Stokes argues (61-67), as I do, that Socrates had reasons for his &quot;mission&quot; that were entirely independent of the oracle. But Stokes' account of Socrates' real mission, and of the purpose of the oracle story, is rather different from mine.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-68&quot; name=&quot;nb9-68&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-68&quot;&gt;68&lt;/a&gt;] He does say that the craftsmen's immodesty&#8212;thinking they know things they do not (&quot;the greatest things&quot;)&#8212;&quot;conceals&quot; the craft-wisdom they do have (22d8-e1). This could suggest that their craft-wisdom would indeed make them overall wiser than Socrates, were it not for their immodesty. But such an interpretation conflicts with his conclusion that all human wisdom is worth &quot;nothing&quot;. The false dilemma of &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 22e1-4 may somewhat obscure the point. But plainly Socrates never takes interest in the clear, but unmentioned, option of keeping his modesty while &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;adding&lt;/i&gt; craft-wisdom. (We surely are not to think that craft-knowledge &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;inherently&lt;/i&gt; comes along with immodesty. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Gorg.&lt;/i&gt; 511d-512b gives an example of a craftsman free of the conceit highlighted at &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Apol.&lt;/i&gt; 22d-e.)&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-69&quot; name=&quot;nb9-69&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-69&quot;&gt;69&lt;/a&gt;] Nor could the oracle's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;prima facie&lt;/i&gt; meaning, together with his own lack of craft-knowledge, have given him sufficient confidence for ignoring craft-wisdom. After all, if he were at that point as yet uncertain that the oracle's &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;prima facie&lt;/i&gt; meaning was its true meaning, how could he at that time have been confident in dismissing craft-wisdom as irrelevant, especially since &quot;&lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;sophia&lt;/i&gt;&quot; was commonly used to refer to craft-knowledge?&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-70&quot; name=&quot;nb9-70&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-70&quot;&gt;70&lt;/a&gt;] So I disagree with Stokes that we find at 29d-30b &quot;far more positive content&quot; than earlier in the dialogue (1992, 75).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-71&quot; name=&quot;nb9-71&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-71&quot;&gt;71&lt;/a&gt;] For this reason alone, we must reject McPherran's proposal that, before Socrates allegedly discovered the oracle's meaning, the value that he found in philosophy was &quot;significantly qualified by ordinary prudential considerations&quot;, e.g. about &quot;money and leisure&quot; (1996, 222). Another, more powerful consideration against McPherran's interpretation is that the relative values that Socrates himself places on philosophy on the one hand and those &quot;external goods&quot; on the other are precisely the values he believes &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;everyone&lt;/i&gt; should place upon them, as his habitual exhortations make plain. Thus his philosophical obligations are in no way &quot;special&quot;.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-72&quot; name=&quot;nb9-72&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-72&quot;&gt;72&lt;/a&gt;] This, I assume, is what makes Weiss say that &quot;to obey the god and to act according to one's own reasoned conclusions about what justice requires are, at bottom, the same thing&quot; (1998, 11; cf. 17 n. 28; also cf. her 2005, 85-86).&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-73&quot; name=&quot;nb9-73&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-73&quot;&gt;73&lt;/a&gt;] Reeve (1989, 71), Vlastos (1991, 171-172), and Stokes (1992, 48) too think the speculative terms are significant.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip_note&quot;&gt;[&lt;a href=&quot;http://gramata.univ-paris1.fr/Plato/#nh9-74&quot; name=&quot;nb9-74&quot; class=&quot;spip_note&quot; title=&quot;Footnotes 9-74&quot;&gt;74&lt;/a&gt;] Since (as I have tried to show) the substance of the oracle story and Socrates' own framing and commentary provide his audience ample opportunity to see that he cannot have meant it seriously, we need not worry that Socrates would scruple to speak &quot;ironically on a matter of substance&quot; in this instance. So Brickhouse and Smith's concerns about ironic interpretations (1989, 40ff. and 89-90) simply do not apply here because he does not &quot;risk being intentionally misleading&quot;. The fact that Socrates repeatedly voices doubt in his ability to give a &quot;full&quot; defense of himself &quot;in so brief a time&quot; (19a, 24a, 37a-b) is further indication that Socrates was not (pace Brickhouse and Smith) overly concerned about producing an &quot;effective&quot; defense.&lt;/p&gt;&lt;/div&gt;
		&lt;div class='rss_ps'&gt;&lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Adam, A.M. 1914. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Plato: The Apology of Socrates&lt;/i&gt;. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Adam, James. 1893. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platonis Crito&lt;/i&gt;. 2nd edition. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;. 1916. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Platonis Apologia Socratis&lt;/i&gt;. Cambridge: Cambridge University Press.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Ahbel-Rappe, Sara, and Rachana Kamtekar, eds. 2006. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;A Companion to Socrates&lt;/i&gt;. Oxford: Blackwell.&lt;/p&gt; &lt;p class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Benson, Hugh. 2000. &lt;i class=&quot;spip&quot;&gt;Socratic Wisdom&lt;/i&gt;. 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